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“Presentation” gives me goosebumps every time. Such a great scene
Unfortunately the sequel absolutely lacks presentation. Its like they completely forgot what made the first movie good.
There’s a sequel? 😬
Sadly yes.
Just looked it up. None of the original VA cast (all recast). 2.1 stars on IMDB. That’s the lowest I’ve ever seen.
Magneto in the 90s. He even built an asteroid as a refuge for any mutant.
The older I get, more I agree with Magneto.
More like, the older the character gets, the more they update his backstory to be something the audience can sympathize with. Because a villain for villain’s sake gets old fast.
When the Sentinels start rounding up mutants, it is the biggest “I told you so” to Charles.
Magneto ftw. Xavier is a naive little bitch.
“You’re always sorry, Charles …and there’s always a speech!..but nobody cares.”
Does Dr Doom count for this? He believes he’s seen humanity perish in every reality except the one where he becomes the absolute ruler.
The Sixth Day, one of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s please-take-me-seriously projects, is possibly the wrongest it is possible to be about whether clones are people. Still a fun movie. Just ass-backwards in its motivation. I’m not sure how much of its moral grey area was intended by the script or the direction. The anti-clone “good guys” are pretty terrorist-coded. Arnie’s just caught up in the middle of their guerrilla fight against a generic corporate bad guy. Who solved death. How terrible.
Off-topic Schwarzenegger faff: End Of Days is dumb. Jingle All The Way is the most 90s Christmas movie possible. Eraser is a slick action movie that somehow has no cultural cachet outside of every video game with a railgun.
Interview With a Vampire … kind of … Lestat was by no means good to Louis, but their portrayals in the rest of the series was quite different … I think that Anne Rice was trying to show that neither of them should be considered reliable narrators and Louis will always try to portray his situation as awfully as possible and Lestat is a narcissist and will always try to portray himself in the best light even when acknowledging what he did incorrectly.
But, when I saw that book 2 was about Lestat, I was like … wtf … I hate this guy, why would I want a story with him as the main character and then I read them all, lol.
Osama bin Laden
Why the fuck did this make me laugh…now I need to downvote myself
Reviewing his career and accomplishments - the guy was a real life Michael Douglas in Falling Down… but followed through on a larger scale. And deaths, a whole lot more deaths.
Jesus Christ… 😂
Adrian Veidt, Watchmen.
Absolutely not, unless you adhere to pure utilitarianism. Veidt kills untold numbers of innocent people on a self-imposed quest to do what he believes will save humanity. He was a straight up megalomaniac and the only upside is that his murderous actions eventually lead to peace.
Not exactly a story. I just watched Babylon 5, and it’s fascinating how the good guys are the bad guys are the good guys are the bad guys…
What bad guys are good guys? The reverse is obviously Vorlons.
No bad guys are good guys. And most good guys are not good guys, either.
The Shadows, the Centauri and the PSI Corps are introduced as “bad guys” but gain a lot of positive aspects during the show without becoming “good guys”. The Nightwatch and the Earth Governement under president Clark are “bad guys” – but quite a few of there supporters/members become important “good” characters, like Zach Allan, Elizabeth Lochley or Susanna Luchenko.
That’s my point about the Babylon 5 series – they deconstruct the good guy/bad guy meme. Mostly.
Centauri got positive aspects? Londo personally, maybe, but not the Centauri. Psi cops as well did not become better, but more like “even bad people have feelings” type of thing.
Ferris Beuler’s Day Off
Rooney? How did he turn out to be the good guy?
Or do you mean Jeanie?
It’s been a while since I’ve seen the film, but I’d say both.
Rooney just wanted proof that Ferris was skipping school, which he was. He went about it the wrong way by entering the Bueller household but he was basically just trying to do his job. He definitely gets obsessive about it but he’s not in the wrong.
Jeanie is pretty self explanatory. She also just wants Ferris to suffer the consequences of his actions.
I think this movie never sat well with me because Ferris obviously does so many wrong and criminal things but is actually rewarded for it. Sure, you should take the time to enjoy life but not at the expense of others.
Can’t believe it’s not mentioned yet, but Alan Moore’s Watchmen
I cant see Ozymandias as a good guy. At all. None of the “heroes” are, but Oz was the worst of them.
I should re-read it, but the impression I got was that Oz was the epitome of this thread’s topic. A real “ends justify the means” villain, where his end goal is to save the world from itself by giving it a common enemy to vanquish. And he does it. In terms of the classical trolley problem, he pulled the lever to kill 1 instead of doing nothing and allowing 5 to die. Am I misremembering?
Veidt asked the precognitive being if his plans for utopia would come to be, and if it was all worth it in the end. Osterman cryptically responded by saying “Nothing ever ends”, and teleported away leaving Veidt once again in doubt as to whether or not his plan was successful.
From what I understood, he spent the whole story acting super-sure about what would happen if he did nothing, and how he alone could fix it. But in the end of the comic, this showed he had doubts. Veidt didnt have precognition, just very good prediction. But also an over-inflated ego. He killed a lot of people for a “maybe”.
Voyager kinda fucks with my ability to set spoiler tags, so here is your Spoiler Warning.
The Cabin in the Woods (even tho the organisation is run by complete assholes, they also happen to postpone the end of the word)
Mass Effect series (the Geth are actually ok having peace with everyone. They just happen to be in a civil war with Reaper worshippers)
Witcher 2 (Letho turns out to be the good guy)
Wanted (the father turns out to be the good guy)
Battlestar Galactica 2004 series (yes, the Cylons enacted the nuclear holocaust on humanity, but there is a case to be made that the vast majority of them have been manipulated by a faction of ancient Cylons, which leads to a civil war later in the show)
Cylons being manipulated by other cylons doesn’t absolve them of guilt.
BSG did have a few instances of the reverse of OP’s question tho – where the “good guys” turned out to be bad" – trying to say this without spoilers; it’s a 20 year old show but ffs of you haven’t seen it, go see it now.
- the (temporary) new admiral
- several main characters during the part where they live on the dirty planet
- a very specific set of seven main characters (wink wink) … .and more,…
And there’s one specific example of the full 360 – a character that starts good, turns bad, but turns out they were actually good all along. I won’t give the name, but they were passing messages to the resistance.
That show was awesome.
One note tho, on the topic generally: flipping character alignments is a frequent pre-shark-jump thing, and is often bad writing. In BSG, tho, all of the “flips” are pre-planned, or at least 100% true to their character (eg the 360 example above).
BSG is one of the best shows I have ever watched and not a single twist came across as forced or unnatural.
If I think about that I started watching it years after it was made and only started because I was bored out of my mind at that time. I could have missed it so easily.
Same here, I think I started it during the lack of new content after the 07-08 writers strike. I thought it would be a mid sci-fi show I would put on for background then it turned out to be awesome.
From someone who has never seen anything about BSG besides jokes here and there in media, where would I start? The 2003 miniseries into the show? Should I start farther back?
Watch the mini-series, then the show from the 2000s.
In the third season of the legend of korra, a group of people try to get rid of a monarchy (which is long established as especially unequal and oppressive) in favor of self government. They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power. I love the avatar universe and get how they needed to fight them, but the group wasn’t wrong
Even the first season had Amon, the guy that wanted equality between benders and non-benders. At one point we’re even shown that power was cut to a predominantly non-bender neighborhood, and when people went outside to protest to get their power turned back on, they were all rounded up and arrested. Afterwards, when Korra goes and tries to get the people that were arrested set free, she’s told
All equalist suspects are being detained indefinitely. They’ll be freed if and when the task force deems them no longer a threat.
Just in case it wasn’t clear enough by that point that non-benders were treated as second class citizens.
All of the LoK villains were basically correct, and had to be caricatures of their stated beliefs in order to be villains. Amon was one of the better ones IMO though. Zaheer is too unrealistic
I’ve been meaning to re-watch Korra, but I remember even the first time I watched it being a bit disappointed in the “enlightened centrism” where they are trying to paint every conflict as pacifists vs extremists.
I think it’s similar to looking at BioShock 1 and BioShock Infinite. There’s a lot of writers out there who just use politics and ideology as a setting for the conflict rather than actually being central to their message. It’s simply a solid formula to make a villain: take any sort of stance and push it to violent extremes. Comstock is a religious zealot, Andrew Ryan I don’t think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember. Ken Levine’s message in the two games is not about religion, but extremes.
There are benefits. It makes the villains more nuanced and relatable. It gives the protagonist room for doubt and allows for some of the “good” guys to take on antagonistic roles. But Korra also ends up supporting an oppressive regime, and Booker DeWitt gets shoehorned into fights against the people rebelling against his enemy because… Reasons?
Watch ‘The Wire’ - the good guys are bad guys, bad guys are good guys. It’s all mixed up!
You have the most appropiate username.
Interview With the Vampire’s Lestat was a bloodthirsty murderer. The Vampire Lestat’s Lestat was a bloodthirsty murderer … with a conscience.
I loved the Vampire Lestat.
The golden hour.
In Tale of the Body Thief, he drinks orange juice and it makes him think of drinking sunshine.
Does Snape count?
What about Loki(marvel)?
Snape was never a good guy though. Very brave, yes and he had some good qualities. He was also vindictive and a bully - willing to put his petty dislikes above the quality of his teaching.
He was also vindictive and a bully
I formed the impression that James Potter and his gang were the real bullies, and Snape is a tragic character traumatized by their bullying.
Yes, but then he went on to be an adult bullying children.
The book strongly implies that Snape turns into a horrible person as a direct consequence of James Potter’s bullying. He seems to be a nice kid before that.
Snape was a good guy, in a sense of oposing the bad guy.
He was however not a good guy in a sense of being at least a decent human being.
