Fleeing to where? If Americans are worried about the rise of fascism at home, I have bad news about the rest of the world. There are no greener pastures. The countries with better quality of life than the U.S. have very strict immigration laws. The U.S. is already the country you go to when yours sucks, no other democratic country has immigration policy as liberal. Trying to flee is circling the drain.
Maybe instead of trying to run away from problems, vote in the upcoming election and just prevent Trump’s dictatorship!
I moved to the Netherlands ages ago. It suits me very well, but many Americans would hate it. Rather than try to convince 300 million people that the Dutch way of life is better, I think it’s okay to just live here instead.
There are lots of things that would bother many Americans. Taxes are high (top tax bracket is 50% or so, and that starts pretty low, plus 21% sales tax), salaries are less. Gas is expensive, people in cities don’t have cars, and most outline of cities have one car per home. Houses are small, shops close early.
The cultural differences run deeper. The primary goal of Dutch civilization is a word that they claim is untranslatable, gezelligheid, which roughly means “cosiness”, but extends to many things that you wouldn’t apply “cosy” to, like a gezellig party, a gezellig walk with friends, a gezellig meal. Success is admired, but you are expected not to show off. Working part-time is normal… 80% of women work part time… and losing the extra income is considered completely worthwhile. Religion is common but being irreligious is much more common; not atheist, as much as just not caring at all about religion.
Nobody has credit card debt. The only thing Dutch people buy on credit is their home.
The Dutch have a reputation for being tolerant, but the culture is actually deeply sexist and racism abounds. An anti-Muslim politician just won our recent national election, and right wing parties did well: the fascist wave washing over the West had washed over the Netherlands too.
In 24 years here I’ve never met a single Dutch person with a gun, except for police. Police in Holland are restrained by laws - a policeman in Rotterdam panicked and fired at a car who ran from a traffic stop and is facing charges, even though nobody was injured. People don’t fear cops, although they are still tools of state power.
The high taxes do provide a security net, although unemployment is lower than in the USA, and people don’t stay unemployed for long. A lot of Dutch people suffer burnout, which is recognised as a medical condition, and basically get paid to not work for a while until they recover. We’ve had a pro-business government for over a decade so our health care is privatized, which is why it is one of the most expensive in the world. Everyone gets medical care though.
You have to register with the government to tell them where you live. The upside is that they just mail you a ballot to vote, since they know where you live. There are no voting computers, because activists showed that they can be hacked.
People put out flags when their kids graduate high school and on the king’s birthday. Having a flag any other time would be a bit weird.
Dutch don’t eat out or order food much. Traditional Dutch food is objectively terrible. Luckily modern Dutch food is delicious. Meat alternatives are cheaper than meat, although milk is still cheaper than fake milk.
Nou, eerlijk zeggen vinden veel Nederlanders het heel fijn in Amerika te wonen. Grote huis, grote autos, mooier weer… kan niet beter! Ik vind deze dingen niet belangrijk, maar ik snap waarom mensen uit Holland verhuizen naar de VS.
Ze lijken zelfs gewoon over de grens naar België te stromen, een gemiddelde Hollandse stadswoning is echt belachelijk klein voor die lange Hollanders, en teringduur ;)
I hear you and we are voting. That said, backup plans are a thing for good reasons.
My wife is Jewish and something she once said to me lives rent free in my brain. “The gross majority of the Jews you know are descended from people who left when they had a feeling. The ones who waited until it was obviously bad did not make it out.”
Fascism is on the rise globally, but not every country will be led by someone who has actively courted neo-Nazis as part of their base. I saw how emboldened those people felt during his first term, and we anticipate it could only get much worse during a second. We do not want to leave, but we fear that staying may become unsafe for our family.
100%.
The Conservative party is currently leading polls here in Canada because of the unpopularity of Justin Trudeau.
The Conservative party are also conspiracy-loving, reality-denying loonies like the Republicans, but since “we’re Canada”, and “it can’t happen here”, they’ll probably form the government next year.
Except they weren’t. Every poll presented all across social media was OMG RED WAVE!!
Polls are shit. The only one that matters EVER is the one on election day.
If you got your news from non social media and looked at polls, not punditry, you’d have known the most likely outcome was pretty much what happened, the Republicans won a narrow majority.
Don’t blame polling for your ignorance.
Edit: If you want an interesting (okay, interesting to nerds like me) recounting of the polling in 2022:
Me over here emigrating to a Scandinavian country. My family thought she was with me to get an anchor baby here in the us, little did they know it was I who was trying to sneak across borders.
Fleeing to where? If Americans are worried about the rise of fascism at home, I have bad news about the rest of the world. There are no greener pastures. The countries with better quality of life than the U.S. have very strict immigration laws. The U.S. is already the country you go to when yours sucks, no other democratic country has immigration policy as liberal. Trying to flee is circling the drain.
Maybe instead of trying to run away from problems, vote in the upcoming election and just prevent Trump’s dictatorship!
I moved to the Netherlands ages ago. It suits me very well, but many Americans would hate it. Rather than try to convince 300 million people that the Dutch way of life is better, I think it’s okay to just live here instead.
I dream of moving and living in the Netherlands. I read that the process can take an excess of 10 years even with a work visa.
Is this true? Is there an easier way?
What are the big differences you’ve noticed?
There are lots of things that would bother many Americans. Taxes are high (top tax bracket is 50% or so, and that starts pretty low, plus 21% sales tax), salaries are less. Gas is expensive, people in cities don’t have cars, and most outline of cities have one car per home. Houses are small, shops close early.
The cultural differences run deeper. The primary goal of Dutch civilization is a word that they claim is untranslatable, gezelligheid, which roughly means “cosiness”, but extends to many things that you wouldn’t apply “cosy” to, like a gezellig party, a gezellig walk with friends, a gezellig meal. Success is admired, but you are expected not to show off. Working part-time is normal… 80% of women work part time… and losing the extra income is considered completely worthwhile. Religion is common but being irreligious is much more common; not atheist, as much as just not caring at all about religion.
Nobody has credit card debt. The only thing Dutch people buy on credit is their home.
The Dutch have a reputation for being tolerant, but the culture is actually deeply sexist and racism abounds. An anti-Muslim politician just won our recent national election, and right wing parties did well: the fascist wave washing over the West had washed over the Netherlands too.
In 24 years here I’ve never met a single Dutch person with a gun, except for police. Police in Holland are restrained by laws - a policeman in Rotterdam panicked and fired at a car who ran from a traffic stop and is facing charges, even though nobody was injured. People don’t fear cops, although they are still tools of state power.
The high taxes do provide a security net, although unemployment is lower than in the USA, and people don’t stay unemployed for long. A lot of Dutch people suffer burnout, which is recognised as a medical condition, and basically get paid to not work for a while until they recover. We’ve had a pro-business government for over a decade so our health care is privatized, which is why it is one of the most expensive in the world. Everyone gets medical care though.
You have to register with the government to tell them where you live. The upside is that they just mail you a ballot to vote, since they know where you live. There are no voting computers, because activists showed that they can be hacked.
People put out flags when their kids graduate high school and on the king’s birthday. Having a flag any other time would be a bit weird.
Dutch don’t eat out or order food much. Traditional Dutch food is objectively terrible. Luckily modern Dutch food is delicious. Meat alternatives are cheaper than meat, although milk is still cheaper than fake milk.
I could go on, but I’ll leave it there!
Zo al lekker uitgebreid
Nou, eerlijk zeggen vinden veel Nederlanders het heel fijn in Amerika te wonen. Grote huis, grote autos, mooier weer… kan niet beter! Ik vind deze dingen niet belangrijk, maar ik snap waarom mensen uit Holland verhuizen naar de VS.
Ze lijken zelfs gewoon over de grens naar België te stromen, een gemiddelde Hollandse stadswoning is echt belachelijk klein voor die lange Hollanders, en teringduur ;)
I hear you and we are voting. That said, backup plans are a thing for good reasons.
My wife is Jewish and something she once said to me lives rent free in my brain. “The gross majority of the Jews you know are descended from people who left when they had a feeling. The ones who waited until it was obviously bad did not make it out.”
Fascism is on the rise globally, but not every country will be led by someone who has actively courted neo-Nazis as part of their base. I saw how emboldened those people felt during his first term, and we anticipate it could only get much worse during a second. We do not want to leave, but we fear that staying may become unsafe for our family.
100%. The Conservative party is currently leading polls here in Canada because of the unpopularity of Justin Trudeau.
The Conservative party are also conspiracy-loving, reality-denying loonies like the Republicans, but since “we’re Canada”, and “it can’t happen here”, they’ll probably form the government next year.
The one upside of trump beating a deeply unpopular Biden would be it might give JT the impetus to acknowledge reality and move on.
Stop. I see your thinly veiled disinformation intention. Biden is not unpopular “deeply” enough for Trump to beat him.
As long as almost every pollster is wrong, sure you’ve got a point.
This is like when conservatives deny climate change because it is unpleasant.
Why do you think the polls were pretty much dead on for the 2022 midterms? Just blind luck?
Except they weren’t. Every poll presented all across social media was OMG RED WAVE!! Polls are shit. The only one that matters EVER is the one on election day.
This sounds like a you problem.
If you got your news from non social media and looked at polls, not punditry, you’d have known the most likely outcome was pretty much what happened, the Republicans won a narrow majority.
Don’t blame polling for your ignorance.
Edit: If you want an interesting (okay, interesting to nerds like me) recounting of the polling in 2022:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/2022-election-polling-accuracy/
Me over here emigrating to a Scandinavian country. My family thought she was with me to get an anchor baby here in the us, little did they know it was I who was trying to sneak across borders.
Lmfao. I love this.
The grass is not greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it.
Tell that to the losers who ripped it out and set the seed on fire
It has been AstroTurf for decades.
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