And what language and region is it?
I’ve noticed my language teacher uses the informal you in one language and the formal one in the other.
In ಕನ್ನಡ (Kannada): ನೀನು (neenu) is the informal you and ನೀವು (neevu) is the formal you.
Pretty much all verbs can be conjugated into formal and informal variants with varying levels of respect indicated. And a ton of words have spoken and written variants - but let’s not get into that now.
Ex for verbs:
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“go”
- ಹೋಗಿ: hogi, gender neutral formal
- ಹೋಗು: hogu, gender neutral informal
- ಹೋಗೋ: hogo, male informal less respectful
- ಹೋಗೋಲೋ: hogolo, male disrespectful , almost like “fuck off dude”
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“stand up” is ನಿಂತುಕೊ (ninthuko, informal) or ನಿಂತುಕೊಳ್ಳಿ (ninthukolli, formal) etc.
Where I’m from, we use the formal variants when talking to pretty much anyone. The informal version is mostly used if you’re talking to friends, toddlers, or cousins (of your own age). The other use case for the informal versions is if you want to insult someone without swearing at them or using the completely disrespectful variants.
Rules change from one city to the next though, and there are regions where using the informal variants is the norm. This leads to some extremely confusing situations - the first time my girl friend met my parents, she addressed them using the informal you and they were shocked (till I jumped in and clarified) as they thought she was dissing them, but it’s just how people spoke in the city where she grew up. 🤷♂️
What language is this?
Kannada
Thanks!
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In Finnish, “sinä” is singular “you” and “te” is plural “you”. (sinä also has tons of variations in spoken language, including but not limited to: sä, sää, sie) Te is traditionally used as formal address both for authority and peers, but pretty rare nowadays. Nobody really uses it or any other formal address terms anymore, outside of certain very formal contexts, except reporters in interviews for some reason.
I live in Japan, and of course there are formal ways to say everything, but in formal and polite situations, people actually try to avoid saying ‘you’ (anata, 貴方) as much as possible. Because even that can feel too personal. I only see it in writing that addresses the reader indirectly, like in surveys.
If you do address or refer to them, you typically use their title/position (e.g., ‘sensei’ for doctors and teachers, ‘Mr. President’), or name and appropriate honorific (e.g., Tanaka-san).
P.S., a lot of what might’ve been archaically formal and polite ways to say ‘you’ have become ironically rude and/or condescending. Like, ‘KISAMA!’ (貴様), kimi (君) (sovereign/lord), onushi (お主) (lord).
Yes this! With my family and friends I don’t think I’ve ever used anata. It feels almost as confrontational to me as the actual formal ways
a lot of what might’ve been archaically formal and polite ways to say ‘you’ have become ironically rude and/or condescending.
You can do something similar in English through sarcastic statements with inappropriately polite forms of address. e.g. saying “Well, excuse me, sire!” to someone with a sassy tone of voice should be interpreted as “I’m offended” or “I can’t believe you just did that, you asshole” or similar depending on context.
Russian here.
I use the formal “You” when talking to adults I don’t know well and in official conversations. Also, with superiors.
I use the informal “you” with friends and family, and with colleagues I know well. Informal “you” also communicates warmth, safety, a call to action, or authority, which is why it may be used when addressing children (particularly preteens), people in danger, or someone else you need to either influence or make feel safe, or both.
Of course there are millions of exceptions, and everyone keeps it slightly different. For this reason, it is common for people to have hard time figuring whether to address certain people by formal or informal “you”. Mistakenly using the formal option can be read as creating more distance, the informal - as invading the personal space. It’s an issue in spoken conversations, too, as these forms are actually two different words that are audibly different.
I’ve literally never heard “您” in my entire life, except for like Chinese TV Drama or in a Chinese-Language class where the word is being taught.
That said, I’m not ever near politicians or bussiness people, just another “filthy peasant”.
Used in Mandarin speaking places. You is “你” ni 3rd tone, You (Formal) is “您” nin 2nd tone(?), the 您 character even has the 心 part to show how much “heart” you meant when you use that pronoun lol, its literlly 你 (you) + 心 (heart).
I don’t think Cantonese even has a formal “you”, everything is so colloquial and informal.
Tagalog. I lived with my ex-wife and her family for years. The more people in the house, the happier Mom was. They all spoke Tagalog. One day I heard my brother-in-law speaking to someone on the phone and it sounded much different. I asked him why and the call and he said he was speaking formally.
Hopefully someone can explain better.
In Filipino/Tagalog, you = “ikaw” (or “ka”, depending on the way the sentence is structured) which is okay to use for peers or younger people. For older people or people of higher positions, we address them with the “plural you” = “kayo”. We also add “po” when speaking politely/respectfully.
For example:
“Nasaan ka?” = “Where are you?”
“Nasaan po kayo?” = “Where are you?” (respectfully)
Listening to my wife speak Tagalog to family and friends gets me. Spanish! Out of nowhere!
LOL. Zapatos (shoes), left, right, straight, and chisme (gossip) are a few I remember.
For Spanish, I pretty much only use it with customers at work, and nice, elderly people. I guess I would use it if I were in a court for something in Spanish, but otherwise, I don’t really use it at all.
Which country are you from?
In Turkish we have plural version of you called Siz which can be used both adressing multiple people and as formal you. There are no pronunciation differences so it depends on the context. (e.g. Sizin sınıfınız iyi. uses it as plural, Sizi bir yerden gözüm ısırıyor. uses is as formal you)
Spanish has a plural formal form as well, but it’s only used as such in Spain. “Ustedes” (the informal one is “vosotros”.)
In the rest of the Spanish speaking world, that formal form is used in both formal and informal contexts. So non-Spaniards have that one fact with common with Turkish people. Neat!
In Mexican Spanish, you would default to formal ‘you’ in most public interactions (although not all people do this). You would also use formal language when talking to a teacher or an authority.
- Formal ‘you’ (singular): usted
- Formal and informal ‘you’ (plural): ustedes
- Informal ‘you’ (singular): tú
Note that the informal and formal ‘you’ in plural are the same.
Fun fact: formal language in Spanish is more than just formal ‘you’.
E.g., if you’re working at a fancy shop and wanted to ask a customer “how may I help you?”, you would say “¿en qué le puedo ayudar?” (formal) instead of “¿en qué te puedo ayudar?” (informal). This question does not have ‘you’ in Spanish.
Formal and informal is not the same in plural.
“Ustedes” is formal, “vosotros” is informal. Although Mexicans (and many other south Americans) don’t use the informal version, it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.
Some countries also say “vos” for singular. I don’t know if that replaces “tú” or “usted” though.
Isn’t te/le technically a conjugation of you though? You also have to conjugate the verb but at least the difference is just an ‘s’ that you can aspirate enough that it’s not clear if you’re going for tu or usted.
Perhaps you are right. Unfortunately I’ve forgotten lots of the linguistics of Spanish :(
Slovenian uses the formal one for adults you are not personally connected to. So like strangers or people in positions that demand somw respect. Definitely used for people like teachers, professors, your SO’s parents…
There is also a half formal way of addressing people that I kinda hate and is also completely grammatically incorrect and I don’t really know how to explain the way it works. It can only be used in past and future tense (because the present does not have a modifier for the verb). So the first part of the verb is taken from the formal (plural) form of the verb and the second part is taken from the informal (singular) form.
Czech (and Slovak, mostly also Polish) use formal/informal you similar to German or French. (At least from my limited understanding of those.)
Formal: High schools, universities, work environment, courts, etc. You also use it when you’re speaking with older people or when you want to show respect to person you’re talking to.
Informal: Everywhere else. It is also used when you want to indirectly insult person where formal should be used.
Life hack: You can use informal absolutely everywhere when you’re old (even when it’d be very disrespectful otherwise) and nobody gives a shit.
Japanese has many ways to say “you”. It’s weird because indirectness can be more polite, so a formal way of saying “you” in context in a sentence might not include any words that would translate to “you” in the dictionary. And the subject is optional, just to make things extra fun.
The other question, about casual ways to say “you”, is easier to answer… It depends on the dialect and where you’re from in Japan.
Can you give examples, please?
Examples of what? Dropping the “you” in the sentence all together, or the casual ways to say “you”?
Regarding dropping it, it’s very common to drop the “I” or the “you” in regular speaking, as it’s assumed. Verb conjugation has a lot more power in Japanese, and you designate questions separately, which clears up most of the confusion. In English, “Go to the store” can either be a command or a statement (if you add “I will” at the front). In Japanese, this is explained in the conjugation of the verb. The subject thus becomes superfluous, and is dropped in everyday speech.
There’s a ton of different ways to say both “I” and “you” in Japanese, and can depend on gender, closeness, and situation. The four most common forms of “you” are to say the person’s name + さん (san), あなた (anata) which is rather generic but is odd to use too much especially if you know the person’s name, 君 (kimi) for people who know each other well (slightly masculine), and お前 (omae) which is so informal it can be crass, like calling a stranger “bro” in English.
I speak Spanish, and use the formal pronoun when in any formal situation, eg. addressing a stranger.
In a weird twist, despite speaking Spanish, my particular dialect doesn’t have a formal you. We use usted for everyone. I joke that “usted es un malcriado puta de mierda” is a perfectly valid sentence
I also know French and that one does have a formal you, but it also doubles as the plural you so it’s a bit more common. It also has two different forms of we
Technically English has this too but it’s not used outside of extremely formal situations. You = formal, Thou = informal.
I’m certain there is no situation like that. It’s just a dead part of the language. Most native speakers don’t even know how to use it properly when imitating old-timey speech.
Quakers use “thee/thou” sometimes, but only because the movement has been around since just before the end of the shift to “you” for everything, and it’s fossilised in as a result. There’s a few weird British Isles dialects that preserve it too, but they’re not widespread.
It’s archaic. I can’t really imagine a situation in which we’d use “thou” today for formality reasons. If you say “thou” , you’re pretending to be someone from hundreds of years ago or you’re quoting the King James Bible or something that is hundreds of years old.
I think a more-reasonable division between formality and informality would be whether or not one uses a title like “sir” today.
Sir is not a grammatical person. You/Thou are, however. That’s the difference.
