In case you haven’t seen it there’s a great documentary from 2005 about the anti-war movement within the ranks of the United States Armed Forces during the Vietnam War.
Weeeelllll back in the day we called soldiers “baby killers” and then after 9/11 we had to jerk every military member off we saw and repeat “thank you for your service” with a handful of dick.
“Oh you hide under your bed everytime a firecracker goes off? You should do
heroinoxycodone for that”-Post 9-11 VA.
I’m not sure how to feel about the level of support shown for Bushnell, when previous self-immolators have been thoroughly ignored.
Part of me is glad that his death is not in vain, and his friends and family can take some solace in that fact.
But part of me is terrified that 20 more people are going to try similar stunts and achieve… less-than-nothing.
There are already too many martyrs. We need agitators. You can’t agitate if you’re dead or otherwise removed.
Please: If you’re considering Aaron Bushnell an inspiration, be inspired by the fact that he did something unusual, not that he did something self-destructive. Go throw some soup on a Van Gogh instead.
previous self-immolators have been thoroughly ignored
Arguably a self imolator ended the war in Vietnam. He absolutely got the ball rolling.
Arguably a self imolator ended the war in Vietnam.
No, he fucking didn’t. The Vietnamese breaking the US military through the use of force ended the war in Vietnam.
No. The Vietnamese did not “break” the US military. We got tired of being there, though.
I hate to be the one to break it to you… but the Vietnamese broke the US military. Swallow all the cope the propagandists have been spoon-feeding you about this since the 70s - it doesn’t change anything.
What do you mean by “broke”? I’m quite literally in a class on the Vietnam War this semester, writing a paper about how ineffective our policy of bombing an agrarian society that only needed to supply its forces 50 tons of supplies a day.
Please, elaborate.
ineffective our policy of bombing an agrarian society
“Ineffective” at what? The indiscriminate carnage that the US visited on SE Asia from the air was possibly the most effective mass-slaughter campaign ever perpetrated by a colonialist power - it was even more effective than the colonialist slaughter Germany visited on eastern Europe and the Soviet Union during WW2.
So no… as far as the tenets of colonialist warfare is concerned, it was perfectly effective.
At stopping supplies and people from moving south?
So, our goal was genocide? I’m not saying we were the good guys, but clearly we weren’t comparable to the fucking Nazis eastern campaign.
You still didn’t answer what it meant to break the US military.
Mike Prysner is fucking based.
Most y’all would call him a tankie and shoo him out of here.
Does he believe in the state using force to kill and brutally suppress its citizens to enforce their rule and limit democratic freedoms?
Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China. We don’t call those people tankies, we call tankies tankies.
Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China.
To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: “I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Viet Cong ever called me the N-word”.
Are you saying you have no issue with China because you aren’t a Uigher?
Leftism should be accompanied by the belief that no matter where someone is born or with what traits, they should be able to live a happy and comfy life. No government should be exempt from persecuting people. A Tankie says “well, hold on” if it’s a government they like.
Leftism should be accompanied by the belief that no matter where someone is born or with what traits, they should be able to live a happy and comfy life.
You’re not describing “Leftism”. You’re describing “Consumerism”. The leftist struggle for a free and equitable society does not guarantee happiness or comfort. It guarantees a worker’s right to the fruits of one’s labor.
And sending troops abroad to butcher civilians and burn down their homes does nothing to accomplish either.
A Tankie says “well, hold on”
Again, it is absolutely crazy to see to “tankie” conflated with “please stop bombing people”.
How the hell did you get “a Tankie says to stop bombing people” from “a Tankie excuses genocides if they like the country”?
My whole point is that there’s certain countries where they don’t say “please stop bombing people” and make excuses defending the country instead.
It’s very telling however that your thought of people being able to live happily and freely no matter where they’re born or with what traits is “consumerism”.
“a Tankie excuses genocides if they like the country”
Fascists constantly telling me that we need to bomb the village in order to save it, and if you don’t support napalming My Lai, you’re with the Terrorists.
My whole point is that there’s certain countries where they don’t say “please stop bombing people”
Name. That. Country.
It’s very telling however that your thought of people being able to live happily and freely no matter where they’re born or with what traits is “consumerism”.
Its Utopian to believe people simply stop having problems under a particular ideological system. Capitalists and Communists alike need to deal with droughts and pandemics and supply chain failures and climate change.
Neither system guarantees people happiness and freedom.
But recognizing ecological limits means you’re a “tankie”? While devouring seed corn because it makes you happy is… what? Real Leftism?
I get the feeling we are terribly misunderstanding each other and talking past the other. I think I see your point about there being problems in any system, but I think it behooves us to strive for the ideal, even if it’s unattainable.
In general, Russia tends to be the country that tankies make excuses for. Instead of condemning the actual country invading Ukraine and bombing civilians, they’ll say it’s Ukraine’s fault for wanting to join NATO, for instance.
If you disagree with that thinking, then good. You aren’t a Tankie. There were a number of “leftist” thinkers at the outset of the war who blamed the West and NATO for Russia invading, instead of Russia. And some still insist the bloodshed has to stop by Ukraine suing for peace, instead of Russia leaving.
Fascists constantly telling me that we need to bomb the village in order to save it, and if you don’t support napalming My Lai, you’re with the Terrorists.
In Ukraine war, Tankies suggest Russia is just defending itself and its “spheres of influence”. It’s not dissimilar from your example. If you don’t understand Russia’s “very reasonable” response of bombing Ukraine to prevent it from joining NATO, you’re called a Western imperialist, unironically.
The other main example is with China and the Uighurs. Detaining a cultural group in concentration camps and forcibly reeducating them and erasing their culture is typically seen as genocide, but with China you’ll hear Tankies make excuses that it’s to stop terrorism and that is all Western propaganda and there’s nothing suspicious going on at all.
Once again, if that isn’t you, you aren’t a Tankie. I’d argue tankies actually have a concerning natural alliance with fascists.
Moderates are eager to paint leftists as Tankies when that isn’t the case, I agree with you there. That doesn’t mean the term has no meaning nor utility however.
Hitler never tried to kill me based on my ethnicity but I’ve still got a problem with him.
You can and should oppose fascism and authoritarianism without being the targeted victim.
Ali was making a statement about his refusal to be sent to fight in Vietnam. That soldiers are individuals, and that they have more in common with each other than they do with their own leadership.
I mean, yeah fascism and its leadership must be opposed in all its forms, but the average German soldier in WW2 wasn’t any more brainwashed than the average American soldier is now.
The armies of the enemy are not our enemy. They are distant parts of ourselves, ruled over by wicked masters just as we are.
And that relates to being critical of and not supporting authoritarian regimes how?
It’s a warning, that in fighting fascism we must always remember that the enemy is not the people to avoid becoming the oppressor.
Me: Because you can be a leftist and not support that shit by holding positive views of the Soviet Union or China.
Them: To paraphrase Muhammad Ali: “I ain’t got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Viet Cong ever called me the N-word”.
You: It’s a warning, that in fighting fascism we must always remember that the enemy is not the people to avoid becoming the oppressor.
That seems like a very unrelated tangent you’ve gone on here?
Unless you’re trying to argue that the people who push for and actively want those oppressive regimes are not the enemy? Which is so utterly ridiculous that I don’t think that’s your point.
Hitler never tried to kill me
We didn’t enter the war with Germany until after Pearl Harbor. So, it was less Hitler than Tojo that ultimately provoked our entry into the war.
You can and should oppose fascism and authoritarianism
It should be noted that FDR opposed fascism in Europe by sending enormous amounts of military aid to a certain Russian Communist by the name of Joseph Stalin. Quite a few of his peers argued the opposite. It was Stalin who was the true menace and Hitler who should have been our natural ally.
So, who should we have opposed? The Fascist or the Authoritarian?
Americans thinking the world is America.
The first great communist revolution of the 20th century began as an anti-war movement during WW1.
And look how shit that turned after Stalin got involved.
Everyone here who isn’t a center right Biden supporter is essentially a tankie according to the majority of users here.
Anarchists who show a modicum of respect for MLs and don’t go along with the center right party line? TANKIES!
Communists of all sorts who might find themselves somewhere in the middle of Y axis? TANKIES!
Left unity in face of the center right? TANKIES!
You don’t vote Biden? China or Russian psyop and a tankie!
The majority of users on Lemmy are leftists, so I doubt that immensely.
The majority of users on Lemmy are leftists
Liberals aren’t leftists. You don’t have much excuse for not knowing the difference by now.
I said leftists, because they are.
The majority here are not liberals.
The majority here are not liberals.
The majority of people here are liberals - not leftists.
Strongly disagree.
The majority of people here aren’t tankie fucks, but they’re certainly leftists.
Give me a fucking break, no self respecting leftist would give Biden their vote. The vast majority here is liberals cosplaying as leftists to undermine actual left unity.
Tell me more how you don’t understand the US political situation and elections please.
Bam, I fucking knew it! Thanks for proving my point.
“Everyone to the south of a ML is a liberal”. Ironic.
America has no choice, they don’t live in a democracy. They get to pick Trump or Biden, you can whinge that they should all grab their guns and revolt, but they can’t even get enough people together to peacefully change things so that isn’t happening any time soon.
You can be an accelerationist and hope that Trump winning will create class consciousness, but you’re paying for that with the lives of christo-fash victims.
What’s your solution mate?
It’s too fucking easy with you guys.
What’s your solution?
The majority of users on Lemmy are
leftistsliberals, so I doubt that immensely.ftfy. At least on lemmy.world. And no being a liberal doesn’t make you a leftist, nor even necessarily left of center, depending on what brand of liberalism you subscribe to.
Its genuinely crazy to see how quickly Americans have adopted the idea that “Tankie” is the best way to describe Anti-war advocates, while the Blue Lives Matter crowd are in favor of peaceful coexistence.
I have never seen tankie used outside of using it for far left war mongering
far left war mongering
Which country did the Far Left advocate invading recently?
