Gateway Church’s board of elders said in a statement on Tuesday that they’d accepted senior pastor Robert Morris’ resignation. Morris is a former member of Donald Trump’s faith advisory board
Are you a paedophile? No? Then that’s why you find it easy.
Not defending this guy or anyone who harms kids, but to try and compare how easy it is for you not to do, to how easy it should be for those who have urges you and I can’t even imagine not to do, isn’t really productive - it completely ignores the core of the issue - for some people it isn’t that easy, and they need serious help, before they cause harm, not for their struggles to be brushed off as something that isn’t real because the rest of us don’t experience it.
And just to reiterate, this isn’t a defence, and those who do harm others should absolutely suffer the consequences, but you’re never going to stop that kind of harm from happening again and again if you pretend the problem that causes it doesn’t exist.
Well this is a whole community that messed up. His church knew his past and decided to still put him in positions of trust and authority. They could’ve had him do work as a church landscaper or some other non-leadership role if they wanted to still keep him gainfully employed while going through treatment for his issues. Nobody forced the rest of the church leadership to keep him as a minister and pastor when they knew he was capable of abusing a young child for years on end. It is also the responsibility of pedophiles to not put themselves in positions where they have access to children. They might not be able to help their urges, but they can choose not to work around children or share a home with children. There are lots of jobs where children aren’t involved.
I’ve made it through my entire adulthood without molesting any children…. WITHOUT EVEN TRYING. It’s real easy, the only thing you have to do is not fuck any kids
This is what I am replying to.
None of what you said contradicts anything I’ve said, the only somewhat relevant point you touched on is
it is also the responsibility of pedophiles to not put themselves in positions where they have access to children. They might not be able to help their urges, but they can choose not to work around children or share a home with children.
Which only brings me back to my original reply - are you a paedophile? No? Then that’s why you think it’s that easy.
and
to try and compare how easy it is for you not to do, to how easy it should be for those who have urges you and I can’t even imagine not to do, isn’t really productive - it completely ignores the core of the issue - for some people it isn’t that easy, and they need serious help, before they cause harm, not for their struggles to be brushed off as something that isn’t real because the rest of us don’t experience it.
True, sadly it’s only one of so many contributing/possible factors, and that’s the point - we can only ever try to tackle the problem if we look at the whole (admittedly very large and gruesome) picture, not just the focused anger at the individual that we feel when we first hear such things happen. Which is justified, don’t get me wrong, but punishing one paedophile won’t stop other paedophiles - if it was going to it would have already. Only addressing all of the factors that lead to them feeling the way they do (personally within themselves but also societally, as you point out), so that suitable places for them to turn to for help and treatment can exist, will.
Who is pretending it doesn’t exist? I’d really enjoy robbing a bank so I didn’t have to work anymore, but I don’t because it’s wrong. No matter how much I want that money. I get the urge to smoke weed and play video games all day but I don’t because I have responsibilities. The urge isn’t the problem. I understand that they probably don’t want those urges and it’s either brain miswiring or due to their own abuse earlier in life, but having an urge and acting on it are two totally different things. Their lack of self control is the issue. The coverup and then having the AUDACITY to tell other people how to live their lives, like this asshole was doing, is the icing on the cake.
I have unhealthy urges due to acute anxiety. If untreated, it can absolutely mean I’m behaving in ways that harm me and those around me. Since I care about others and my own well-being, I go to therapy and take medication.
I don’t like it when mentally ill adults*, who don’t care enough to pursue treatment, get let off the hook. He knows that he’s trading these kids’ futures for his own gratification and he doesn’t care. Not all PDFs are like this–but this motherfucker is and therefore gets no sympathy from me.
*This doesn’t include people who have illness, delusions, or lack of resources, preventing them from getting regular treatment.
And just to reiterate, this isn’t a defence, and those who do harm others should absolutely suffer the consequences, but you’re never going to stop that kind of harm from happening again and again if you pretend the problem that causes it doesn’t exist.
And to add: acknowledging the source/s of a problem ≠ sympathising with someone who has it.
Your reply implies that because you struggle with anxiety (as do I, it is not comparable to paedophilia) but are still able to avoid harming others, and are able to reach out for help, that there is no reason why paedophiles can’t just do the same (so basically making the same claim OP on this thread made - if I can do it they should be able to do it too), ignoring that disclosing and getting help for anxiety and disclosing and getting help for paedophilia are two very different ball games for many different reasons, a few of which you even pointed out with your asterisk at the end. So you can clearly understand, to a point anyway, that some people may not have as good an access as you have, but it isn’t only due to money or location, but also lack of professionals willing to, or who are even educated in helping paedophiles, and that some people simply have a more serious condition than you do. So again, and hopefully for the last time - Are you a paedophile? No? Then that’s why you find it easier.
Your reply also implies that I have sympathy for paedophiles and or that I don’t think they should be held responsible for their actions, or that I’m “letting off the hook”, which I’ve already made clear isn’t the case.
Ok, I thought I covered things like schizophrenia, where people can’t always manage their treatment due to the nature of the disorder, when I listed illness, but I can see how that’d get missed.
And you’re right, I neglected to highlight the stigma of pursuing help for pedophilia. I guess I’m being idealist about the ethics of therapists and when they disclose or report.
At the end of the day therapists are just people, and some of them are really terrible (as therapists and or people), also therapy in itself can be outdated and ill-equipped to deal with many issues they as professionals don’t yet understand and or we as a society brush under the rug. Which is one more reason why I think it’s important to recognise that it’s much more complicated than “just don’t do it, I don’t”, otherwise there will never be enough understanding of the influencing factors to enable actual, effective help to become more available (E: my concern isn’t with coddling the paedophiles, but with reducing their numbers to protect as many kids as possible).
Are you a paedophile? No? Then that’s why you find it easy.
Not defending this guy or anyone who harms kids, but to try and compare how easy it is for you not to do, to how easy it should be for those who have urges you and I can’t even imagine not to do, isn’t really productive - it completely ignores the core of the issue - for some people it isn’t that easy, and they need serious help, before they cause harm, not for their struggles to be brushed off as something that isn’t real because the rest of us don’t experience it.
And just to reiterate, this isn’t a defence, and those who do harm others should absolutely suffer the consequences, but you’re never going to stop that kind of harm from happening again and again if you pretend the problem that causes it doesn’t exist.
Well this is a whole community that messed up. His church knew his past and decided to still put him in positions of trust and authority. They could’ve had him do work as a church landscaper or some other non-leadership role if they wanted to still keep him gainfully employed while going through treatment for his issues. Nobody forced the rest of the church leadership to keep him as a minister and pastor when they knew he was capable of abusing a young child for years on end. It is also the responsibility of pedophiles to not put themselves in positions where they have access to children. They might not be able to help their urges, but they can choose not to work around children or share a home with children. There are lots of jobs where children aren’t involved.
This is what I am replying to.
None of what you said contradicts anything I’ve said, the only somewhat relevant point you touched on is
Which only brings me back to my original reply - are you a paedophile? No? Then that’s why you think it’s that easy.
and
Hell, the church cultivates pedophilia by fetishizing virginity from an early age. You don’t push purity culture without fucking up people mentally.
True, sadly it’s only one of so many contributing/possible factors, and that’s the point - we can only ever try to tackle the problem if we look at the whole (admittedly very large and gruesome) picture, not just the focused anger at the individual that we feel when we first hear such things happen. Which is justified, don’t get me wrong, but punishing one paedophile won’t stop other paedophiles - if it was going to it would have already. Only addressing all of the factors that lead to them feeling the way they do (personally within themselves but also societally, as you point out), so that suitable places for them to turn to for help and treatment can exist, will.
Thing is, it’s not actually her virginity that’s being protected. It’s the privilege of her husband to take it.
Who is pretending it doesn’t exist? I’d really enjoy robbing a bank so I didn’t have to work anymore, but I don’t because it’s wrong. No matter how much I want that money. I get the urge to smoke weed and play video games all day but I don’t because I have responsibilities. The urge isn’t the problem. I understand that they probably don’t want those urges and it’s either brain miswiring or due to their own abuse earlier in life, but having an urge and acting on it are two totally different things. Their lack of self control is the issue. The coverup and then having the AUDACITY to tell other people how to live their lives, like this asshole was doing, is the icing on the cake.
I have unhealthy urges due to acute anxiety. If untreated, it can absolutely mean I’m behaving in ways that harm me and those around me. Since I care about others and my own well-being, I go to therapy and take medication.
I don’t like it when mentally ill adults*, who don’t care enough to pursue treatment, get let off the hook. He knows that he’s trading these kids’ futures for his own gratification and he doesn’t care. Not all PDFs are like this–but this motherfucker is and therefore gets no sympathy from me.
*This doesn’t include people who have illness, delusions, or lack of resources, preventing them from getting regular treatment.
🙄
And to add: acknowledging the source/s of a problem ≠ sympathising with someone who has it.
I don’t see our views as conflicting. Not sure why you see it that way.
Your reply implies that because you struggle with anxiety (as do I, it is not comparable to paedophilia) but are still able to avoid harming others, and are able to reach out for help, that there is no reason why paedophiles can’t just do the same (so basically making the same claim OP on this thread made - if I can do it they should be able to do it too), ignoring that disclosing and getting help for anxiety and disclosing and getting help for paedophilia are two very different ball games for many different reasons, a few of which you even pointed out with your asterisk at the end. So you can clearly understand, to a point anyway, that some people may not have as good an access as you have, but it isn’t only due to money or location, but also lack of professionals willing to, or who are even educated in helping paedophiles, and that some people simply have a more serious condition than you do. So again, and hopefully for the last time - Are you a paedophile? No? Then that’s why you find it easier.
Your reply also implies that I have sympathy for paedophiles and or that I don’t think they should be held responsible for their actions, or that I’m “letting off the hook”, which I’ve already made clear isn’t the case.
Ok, I thought I covered things like schizophrenia, where people can’t always manage their treatment due to the nature of the disorder, when I listed illness, but I can see how that’d get missed.
And you’re right, I neglected to highlight the stigma of pursuing help for pedophilia. I guess I’m being idealist about the ethics of therapists and when they disclose or report.
At the end of the day therapists are just people, and some of them are really terrible (as therapists and or people), also therapy in itself can be outdated and ill-equipped to deal with many issues they as professionals don’t yet understand and or we as a society brush under the rug. Which is one more reason why I think it’s important to recognise that it’s much more complicated than “just don’t do it, I don’t”, otherwise there will never be enough understanding of the influencing factors to enable actual, effective help to become more available (E: my concern isn’t with coddling the paedophiles, but with reducing their numbers to protect as many kids as possible).