Fuck Russian trash.
lol the tankies downvoted you
Lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and hexbear in shambles.
Oh hexbear too? I have noticed a lot of questionable posts coming from there
Yep. Just red through some of the comments on lemmy.ml for this news and compare it to the instance of the accounts. https://fedia.io/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/597721/Sweden-officially-joins-NATO#comments
lol reminds me of when it was explained to me that Russia is an Asian country and if I supported Ukraine it meant I was racist against Asians
That doesn’t make any sense on absolutely every level. lol
They will then post an article talking about Russia “reclaiming” its Asian-ness and another that says that it was Asian all along. Then they will downvote you into negative double digits while explaining how horrible a person you are
PS I actually moved here after many months of it. Had no idea what “ml” meant. I joined there because it was the dev instance.
Yeah, that’s some fun logic. A equals B, and B equals C, so A equals C. But this isn’t math and subsets aren’t totality. So hating Russia for warmongering isn’t hating Asians for being Asian.
Yiikes the comments there are so toxic its crazy. Glad I’ve got those instances blocked.
Lemmygrad, lemmy.ml and hexbear
A trifecta of varying qualities of propaganda. An axis of artifice.
There are good people in Russia.
There are good people everywhere.
Doesn’t really change the fact that Russia, more or less in its current form, has been bullying its neighbours for half a millenia. Longer, if you count the Grand Duchy of Moscow as Russia.
Could be said the same for most Europen countries to be honest.
Start naming 😄 I wouldn’t say most. Britain, France, Prussia, Austro-Hungarian Empire, France and Russia had their little swingers club changing partners every few years or so, but there are more countries in Europe.
I’m from Latvia. Russian chauvinism is something I know of first hand. Most other European countries that I have been to have a different, more accepting vibe than the parts that are Russian influenced and manipulated.
So it really can’t be said about most European countries. Maybe historically, but definitely not currently.
I’d like to reitarate that there are good people everywhere. Part of my family is Russian and I like them. I have Russian friends. But it can’t be denied that as a state it’s goddamn awful and should disintegrate asap.
I don’t consider them to be Russian trash. Only Putin and his sympathizers.
I guess you would call Navalny tankie too
Fuck Zionist and pro-Putin trash instead!
Don’t be racist. Russian government is to blame, not their people who are constantly oppressed by their government. Russian people are the biggest victims in Ukranian war, lost more lives fighting for some idiot. Some successfully surrendered, but a lot of them are forced to fight and lost their innocent lives in all of this.
Russian people are the biggest victims in Ukranian war,
Whew lad
Most of the casulties are russian troops, are they not? They don’t join volonterily you know, they are forcefully conscripted.
You can’t claim to be the victim when you are the aggressor, even if that aggression is under force.
All those troops could just … not invade a sovereign nation. They could have a civil war instead of pushing their problems on their neighbouring countries. An equal amount of people would die, but not the ones that have nothing to do with it.
It sounds like you where never forcefully conscripted in a war. Difference is that they can hurt your family, this way you die in a war either way. If you are forced to kill, under threat of death or your family getting hurt, you are clearly a victim. Furthermore Russian people aren’t just ones that are still fighting in war, they are also their wifes and childeren that are losing their husbands and fathers. They are also Russians that surrended to Ukrainain rather then fight, not everyone can do that safely without their commenders stopping them or without Ukrainian troops killing them by mistake. They are also Russian people that killed their conscription officers. There are a lot of good russian people, some died as heroes fighting their governments. Some died as victims of the war on the battlefield not willing to shoot back at Ukrainan soliders, some just fought because they had to and died in the process. There are bad people everywhere, but there are good people too. Claiming all russians are bad is just racism.
Tell that to those raped and mutilated by those fucking victims of yours.
Oh wait, you outright dismissed their existence in order to… <checks notes>… not be racist.
Imagine people in the US electing Trump, then 10 years later writing the same thing.
Russian people are as much at fault.
Do you know what happened to Musolini? Where are the russian partisans?
Bunch of cowards.
They’re forced to fight, but not forced to commit atrocities and war crimes that they did.
“Russian people are the biggest victims” - fuck right off. Just fuck off.
So are US people to blame for Biden supporting genocide in Israel? Or have they just voted for what they saw as lesser evil. You have to understand that Navalny, has started as a real neo-nazzi. Talking about killing all the muslims in the area. It is the same thing in every country. There are no real democracies in the World, people have to vote for the lesser of evils, or at least that is what they see as the only option.
Supporting genocide in Israel? Am I talking to ChatGPT? This sounds like random garbage words assembled as sentences.
What? What don’t you understand in that sentence? Are you saying there is no genocide in Israel? Or that Biden is not supporting it? Because both are easily provable.
I made a very obvious counterpoint that citizens of the US are not to blame for their presidents actions, just like the citizens of Russia. You can’t have it both ways.
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Both of you seem wrong ngl. It’s like two polar opposites.
Dude, that is not fair. Israel is taking land from Palestine, it is Isreal controlled land now and that is just semantics and you know it. The point is that Isreal is particiapting in genocide and Bidan has sidestepped congress to send them weapons. That is both undemoctratic and is support of genocide.
Unless you’re implying that Gaza is a part of Israel, which truly would be a pretty bold claim that not even Netanyahu makes, I’m pretty sure not even you think that there’s a genocide in Israel.
These are semantics that have nothing to do with the point as was making. The point was that the genocide was happening and that Israel government is doing it with the support of the US government.
So Poutine wanted to weaken NATO, ends up adding countries, including one that has been neutral for an incredibly long time.
Sweden has a strong military industry too and Finnland is literally right at Russia’s border. Putin is a master strategist.
Dude really read a history book about Hitler fighting a one front war and somehow turning it into a three front war and said “Hold my beer”
Your comment reminded me of this video, highly worth a watch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si9Phc9ArpU
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=si9Phc9ArpU
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Suomi ei ole tuolle hyökkääjälle vieras. 🍾⛽️🔥
Your spellcheck outed you as a Canadian
Side note, this is also the French spelling of Putin. So you can eat Poutine while being mad at Poutine (I’ll let you guess which is which, unless you’re a cannibal then everything goes TBF).
Sorry, french changes the spelling of proper nouns?
The last name of the president of Russia is Пу́тин. Since people can’t read that without knowing Cyrillic, we need a way to map Cyrillic to the Latin alphabet. However, neither Cyrillic nor Latin script have universal pronunciations: the phonetic value of letters change depending on the language. This leads to the romanization of a name being different depending what the source and target language is. Пу́тин is Putin for Russian-to-English, but Poutine for Russian-to-French. They’re both equally correct, and neither is a change from the other.
I feel like this is advanced trollery, as “poutine” is a French Canadian word, not French French, and pronounced quite differently than Putin.
Yep, especially when they come from different alphabets. But we used to do it for English names too (mostly medieval ones though).
So does English, in Russian Putin’s name is Путин.
Yeah, and it made me kinda hungry too…
Cheese curds have nothing to do with this.
You’re right, at least cheese curds get thrown out when the go bad. Kinda like what Putin does with critics.
[Pours hot gravy on Putin] “A crown for King.”
Cheese curds go bad? I guess I never let them last long enough to find out.
Yeah, he is either stupid or desperate. It does worry me how centralized power balance in the World has become over US controlling most of the conflicts and countries in the World.
Yeah, he is either stupid or desperate.
I’ll pick the middle option: Putin is high on his own supply.
The man made it clear that dissent will be met with swift and gruesome consequences. This is a sure-fire recipe for surrounding yourself with yes-men that are not smart enough to get the hell out. And BTW, that’s always a career where everyone’s last promotion is “pavement inspector”, and training starts immediately at an open 6th floor window. So there’s some cocky, can’t-guage-risk-for-a-damn people mixed in there too. The result is a bunch of decisions from the head-of-state that only make sense between those in his court, and fail to hold up to scrutiny outside those walls.
How is the US controlling conflicts and countries?
By CIA coups, puppet governments, military funding, weapon supplies to insurgents or to the governments, sanctions, etc.
These are not arguments. It is a list of fun buzzwords. Do you have anything specific or concrete to talk about? Am I talking to ChatGPT? I need to know! Are you my skynet daddy?
Good. Sweden has very strong military capabilities with their Total Defense strategy. They also have very advanced weapons development and a huge defense industry, including their Gripen fighter jets. NATO got a lot stronger today.
As a Swede I often find myself thankful we don’t have the military brainwashing the US has, even though we have a strong military for such a small country. The army stuff is there if you look but if you don’t care you don’t notice it much, if at all. I’m not invested enough to have a really informed opinion about us joining NATO. But from what I know it’ll be a good thing, just being able to help countries more that need it is enough of a reason IMO.
NATO was originally founded so that we’d stop invading each other, which should still hold true today.
I like to think of most developed nations as young adults. All of us are supposed to be mature, which means no more war. We can just talk about things like responsible adults.
Sadly, some of these younger fucks still haven’t grasped the concept of “don’t be an idiot”, and we now need NATO for a strong message of “no, you’re not going to touch us, there will be consequences”. It’s a sad thing that we still need to do so, but I’d rather have a large group of friends that I’m sure will have my back if someone would start shit.
So yes, Sweden joining NATO is a good thing. If anything it will lead to better cooperation and coordination between our countries. Not just in the event of war, but just sharing defense resources and intelligence as well. But the best argument is that we just like you Swedes, and we want to keep hanging out together.
You are confusing NATO and UN. UN was founded so that we’d stop invading each other.
NATO was, too. It’s like nuclear weapons. Deterrence. Not meant to be used, but it’s a stabilizer.
That’s why Trump’s words are so harmful. It undermines the deterrence value and the trust. Even though the US is the only country that has ever needed to activate Article 5, after 911. But he probably doesn’t even know that.
NATO formed as a check on the threat to capitalism posed by the Soviet Union.
As a Finn, I thought that joining Nato was the last nail in the coffin. After several decades of crawling towards it, we’re finally a western civilized country now.
You swedes were there already for historical reasons though, but very nice to have you in the same military alliance.
Unless you happen to be Russian or some other power seeking to use military aggression, or the threat there of, against Europe or North America, NATO expansion is a good thing for all parties. The larger the alliance, the more viewpoints, training and speciality each nation can provide and there is less gap for something to get through. Ukraine is a perfect example of why this should have happened a long time ago but political will wasn’t there.
Sweden has a lot to offer NATO and vice versa, its certainly self sufficient for its military needs but with the defense guarantee it can now afford to diversity its military a bit more than its used to with not everyone and everything needing to adhere to a total defense doctrine. There won’t be any Swedish Expeditionary Forces but Sweden does have some rather unique experience and training it can exchange with its western neighbors and possible get some technology exchange and other material assistance to help shore up the northern borders of NATO. The Baltic Sea becoming a NATO lake just a bonus now if Russia tries to start or continue its usual shit.
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This just means that Sweden will have send their troops to fight wars in middle east for oil companies. Russia is hardly capable of attacking Ukraine that is right next to it and has some local support of some Russian citizens. They would never make it to Sweden in the next 100 years. But a lot of lives will be lost in the Middle East in that time.
isn’t NATO a defensive treaty? which would mean no obligation to participate in actions of aggression?
It absolutely is; this guy is either an idiot or deliberately misleading.
Article V has been invoked exactly one time, by the United States after the September 11 attacks. The direct outcomes of this were two operations: Operation Eagle Assist, where NATO forces helped patrol and monitor US airspace in the immediate months after 9/11, and Operation Active Endeavour, a maritime operation where NATO ships patrolled and secured shipping lines in the Mediterranean. NATO itself was not directly involved under Article V in the Iraq invasion, though some members did voluntarily participate (hence Bush’s “coalition of the willing”).
There have been NATO operations in the Middle East under Article IV invoked by Turkey, which mandates only military consultation from members, not direct intervention, though they may voluntarily participate if they want. Likewise, NATO was involved in Afghanistan (which, it should be noted, is not in the Middle East) and Libya in a similar voluntary capacity. It should be noted that, despite not being a member, Sweden did participate in NATO operations in Afghanistan, voluntarily.
Sweden is only obligated to participate in military action if a member state is actively attacked. Otherwise, it’s able to voluntarily participate in other NATO operations, as it has already done in the past. That NATO is a tightly organized and coordinated international military organization makes it really useful for large international operations - generally directed by the UN - but outside of defensive invocations of Article V, these are strictly optional, and members very much have refused to participate in American-led operations that they don’t agree with (see Iraq).
Only on paper. In practice there are many financial and military infulence that US gets when a country joins NATO that result in joining wars in Middle East.
Such as when America tried to lead everyone into a predictably disastrous invasion of Iraq, resulting in most of Europe telling us to fuck off?
Truly, the ‘infulence’ of America is mighty and all must tremble before it.
They actually did get Europe involved https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Training_Mission_–_Iraq#Other_NATO_Contributions Germany,France,Spain,Poland,Norway all of them ended up training armies for US oil companies invasions. Influence is there.
This was all after the invasion to support the fledgling new Iraqi government.
If ten trainers from Norway training the Iraqi military to resist terrorist attacks is your idea of an example of gross western imperialism, you’ll have to forgive me for not being hugely convinced.
What’s your source on that?
If none go spread your propaganda somewhere else, you’re either a russian bot or a sympathiser. Either way you will find no friends here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations All of NATO wars were in non-NATO countries, all where offensive invasitions. They fight in MIddle East for oil companies. I do not sympathize with Russian government, they are just as bad when given the chance. But NATO is scarier. Calling people to support Russia when they critisize your government is insane.
And again, the only mandatory after Article V have been monitoring and patrolling US airspace for a few months after 9/11 and some maritime operations in the Mediterranean to protect shipping and prevent terrorism and smuggling. All those other NATO operations were voluntary, and other NATO countries have happily told the US to fuck off when they don’t want to be involved.
Also, Sweden, despite not being in NATO, also participated in operations in Afghanistan. Your premise that being in NATO necessarily causes you to be involuntarily dragged into gallivanting around the Middle East is simply false. Other nations have autonomy and agency, actually. Not everything is about America.
Just an FYI. Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source.
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Fucking Putin
Yes. Also blame the members of the security council for preventing the UN being effective in solving global conflicts. Ideally, NATO wouldn’t be necessary
Yeeeaahh, but this is a slightly different beast. Even if the UN had fangs ( you’re right there), we’re talking about a nuclear dictatorship with visions of conquest here.
I think you might be reading something into my comment that wasn’t there. Or I didn’t intend, at least. In no way am I trying to minimise Putin’s evil behaviour. The point I was trying to make is that NATO shouldn’t be necessary. The UN should be capable of keeping everyone safe. I’m not anti NATO nor anti UN thou.
the un and nato serve two very different and distinct purposes though.
I think this haterred towards Putin blinded most of us to let governments increase their authorariansim. Like in US after 9/11. Of course Putin is dangerous, but he can’t even win a war in a small country right next to his. Lost more troops then Ukraine. Meanwhile NATO expansion across the World and US influance is truely scary and unprecedented. Most of the wars in World are started by NATO counties and here we don’t hear about is as much.
All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions just like Ukraine and in case of Palestine, far worse. Yet, media successfully is pointing our focus on a single war in Ukraine where Russia has made no advencments and is clearly inferior military power. It reminds me of 9/11, when fear from a small group of terrorist gave the government power to spy on all of its citizens, run torture camp in Guantanamo and remove citizens rights one by one.
Ah, yes, the scary defense-only alliance. Purely by design it doesn’t have the lawful capacity to do any of the things you said, and single members (US or UK) don’t represent it.
Ah yes, no advancements in Ukraine where 1/3 of the country is under occupier control and in entrenched positions.
In is defensive only on paper. In reality it is NATO weapons that supply wars in Middle East. Joining NATO isn’t just mutual defense, you need to sign a lot of other requirements that inevitably gets you under strong influance of US military and finances. Check out military intervantions of NATO, they are all offensive, no one ever attacked a NATO country, they are too strong. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations None of these counties they invaded where part of NATO, Iraq, Afganistan, Kosovo, Bosina, Libya.
Laws don’t matter when you have the military power. Laws only apply to the weak. Powerful countires (and people) don’t protect them selves with laws, since they have the military. When Assange and Manning published US war crimes, militry officials didnt go to jails, but they, whistlblowers and journalists did. Don’t fall for the laws for a second, they don’t apply to them.
You are not wrong that a lot of shady things can happen with military power. It is a fine general statement.
But with regards to NATO, I think you are misinformed (or mixed up?). If all those were invasions (and NATO is so strong), I don’t see how any of these countries could be independent countries now.
They are not independent, that is the point. NATO military is still present in most of them or have puppet governments or are still at war.
Source?
There is this wikipedia article with a list of all the countires in the world with their military presence outside of their countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_overseas_military_bases You can google for each of these countries as well, such as France and their presence in Africa, as well as other “past”-colonial forces, US with their presence in Kosovo, Turkey with their presence in a lot of Balkan countries (also previous colonies of Ottoman empire). There is a lot of countries in the World that where past colonies that never got rid completly of their imperialist rulers. In fact during cold war they made an alliance just for that, that is where the term third world comes from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World Obviously imperialist didn’t like that and the media propaganda changed the meaning of that term to the “developing country” to excuse them staying there while they “develop”. Never actually leaving of course.
Russian weapons supply a lot of wars in the Middle East too. Russia funded the 10/7 Hamas attack. Russia gassed and bombed a lot of civilians in Syria. Russian mercenaries are keeping the civil war going in Libya, as well as couping lots of governments across African countries in the past year
I am not defending Russia. They do horrible things as well, but it is no excuse for our governments to do these things too. And they do it a lot more. As for Russia funding Hamas attack, that just sounds like insane propaganda, sorry. Israel government funded Hamas and let 10/7 happen on purpose to justify genocide, they even brag about it.
As for Russia funding Hamas attack, that just sounds like insane propaganda, sorry.
Your posts on the matter reads like insane propaganda as well.
Iraq, Afganistan
The US called on NATO following an attack on them. The idea was to fight those who had attacked the US, which is in the purview of a defensive alliance. Of course that didn’t end up being the reality because the bush admin lied about Iraq.
Kosovo, Bosina
This was not defensive, you’re correct. But it was instead to stop a genocide of Muslim people by Serbia. Kosovo exists because of NATO involving themselves to stop genocide.
Libya.
This was a UN coalition to aid rebel groups.
I think this haterred towards Putin blinded most of us to let governments increase their authorariansim.
Don’t you think this haterred towards Putin caused by increasing authorariansim of my country’s government? Because Putin is fucking head of it.
Of course Putin is dangerous, but he can’t even win a war in a small country right next to his.
I don’t know what is (not) concerning to you, but for me Good Uncle Voenkom that will send me to die in trenches for Stability™ of Putin’s yachts is concerning enough.
Stay safe comrade. The rest of the world prays that the Russian people will know freedom rather than authoritarianism.
Thank you
Because Putin is fucking head of it.
Thank you for taking a risk by posting here and speaking truth to power. People like you give me hope.
Your people are Putin’s first victims. I hope we’ll one day have cooperation and peace between Russia and the West, as proper friendly neighbors. You guys deserve so much better than Putin.
Thank you for kind words
You’re more than welcome.
In what way has the Russian Invasion of Ukraine led to more authoritarianism among NATO member states?
This is so lazy.
It is in regards to this article that we are talking about these things. NATO membership grew after this Russian invasion. Even from countries that are under no obvious imidiate danger.
That is not authoritarianism
All neighbours of a country that is interested in invading their neighbours are in immediate danger
Since when is Sweden a neibour of Russia?
??? Land bordering one another and neighbors are not the same thing.
(͡•_ ͡• )
There’s a difference between NATO countries and NATO the organisation.
The United States would be going around the world starting wars regardless of whether it’s in NATO or not. Got to feed that industrial military complex
This poster is a paid Russian sympathizer. Baby account, bad English, and only posted in posts regarding this topic.
I don’t know what their deal is exactly (and they clearly have an agenda), but do you really think Lemmy is big enough to be a target for paid actors?
Send people to all corners of the Internet to sow your pro-Russian stance. And if not paid, I would say a Putin fan, someone being threatened by the Russian government, or just a troll. Take your pick. All are possible.
I think Putin is horrible, I never said otherwise, not a fan. And a troll doesn’t post sources, you however are a troll. You just call everyone who critiques NATO a Russian bot. You are either a troll or completly insane
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Never called you a bot.
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You have no link to a source in the thread I was replying to.
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Anyone who looks at the things Putin has done in the last two years and thinks that NATO is worse is the one who is insane.
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Targeting a smaller, receptive audience is actually better than going after larger and more diverse ones. With the later you’re more likely to get called out for your bullshit.
The former is more likely to listen, and a small echo-chamber will eliminate dissidents. That relatively small core group will gladly modify the message to better appeal to the local/culture they belong to, and spread it wide-and-far while obscuring the original source.
It’s a highly effective strategy: look at Qanon. It started on 8chan of all places, with a tiny userbase behind it.
Of course no one is paid to post on lemmy, this person is a lunatic that thinks anyone who critisizes their own government must be a Russian spy.
You are insane
But they also influence NATO organizations through various requirements of joining the NATO so that in the practice, they are involved. NATO as an organization has participated in mmultiple invasitions around the World, it is on the Wikipedia page. All of their military involvements where in non-NATO countries. Nobody ever attacked a NATO country, they never did a defensive war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO#Military_operations
they never did a defensive war
Great success then.
Only non-Nato countries have to fight defensive wars. Thanks for convincing me of NATOs effectiveness
I never said NATO is not effective defensive strategy for the government, just that it is effective offensive strategy as well. However this only applies to the government, not the people. Troops are sent to die in these offensive wars, while otherwise they would be safe at home. Don’t spin this as an opposite claim that all non-NATO countries end up in a war. Some of the countries now in NATO where invaded by NATO first and then forced to join. That is like saying surrendering is safer then being nutral, bacause they can’t attack you if you are already surrendered.
NATO does not force countries to join. There’s an application process. You’re spouting literal Russian propaganda.
A country that is attacked by NATO doesn’t join it after 15-20 years with their populations support. They fund the politicians that are pro-NATO and get them to join it without the support of the people. It is what actually happened in places like Montenegro. Just beacuse it is horrible, don’t assume it is not true. As for blaming me of spreading a russian propaganda, beacuse of letting you know that we have part in impersialistic regimes, I have a book for you.
No country has ever been forced to join NATO. a country has to apply to join and a defensive alliance only works if all members are willing
They are made to be willing by funding politicains that secretly support it. When they get in power, they join without the support of their people. CIA has a long history of medeling in elections and this statement that it is willing is of course manufactured, as most of the democratic processes are.
All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions
- The US has never invaded Iran
- Afganistan was completely justified; the US could not let 9/11 go. Few countries in the world disputed this at the time, even among those unfriendly to the US. You can certainly criticize how it played out–I sure as hell do.
- Vietnam, yeah, not going to argue there
- Syria was a complex 13 way clusterfuck. We supported a specific side against another specific side, mostly with material and air support, and some limited ground support. It’s not exactly an invasion, but this is certainly another place where it’s more about how it played out than the support in itself.
Maybe he meant Iraq? I think Afghanistan taught us a lesson in what we’ve become. We were a country that could bomb another into the ground, but then rebuild it into a functional society. Regardless of the morals of that, japan and south korea are functional if unhappy. Unhappiness describes life, but I feel like the contracting on top of contacting and the line goes up profit obsession infected out zeitgeist so deeply, we are no longer capable of rebuilding what we destroy.
Maybe did mean Iraq, but I’m not about to give a russiabot the benefit of doubt.
I did mean Iraq. I am not a russian bot simply because I critisize our governments.
Eh I don’t think we failed at nation building in Afghanistan because we’re incapable of it, but because we didn’t take the time to understand Afghan society and we weren’t putting enough resources towards construction.
I did mean Iraq, but Iran is not much better. US staged a coup in Iran to get a puppet government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d’état#Release_of_U.S._government_records_and_official_acknowledgement Afganistan is not justified, you don’t invade an entire country because of a terroist attack. It was an excuse, just like the Patriot Act for more imperisalism and antidemocratic actions. Calling things invasions are semantics, more important is the bigger picture. US has huge influnace in the region thorug coups and military invasions.
NATO did not invade Iraq, the US did. You are conflating things.
The current winner in the Middle East is Russia
Since they are allowed to support the killing of civilians and suppression of rights they have Iran, Iraq, and Syria
You can see how hard it is for the US to even have a foothold there with the Israel conflict. Which they are forced to support because of the above
US has far more influence in Middle Easst then Russia. Russia didn’t win anything in Middle East. US has control of Saudi Arabia and Israel quite famously. Most other governments where once funded by the CIA as well.
Such control of SA that they murdered Khashoggi with no reprisal and not only is SA China’s biggest supplier of oil but they also have nuclear agreements
Afganistan is not justified, you don’t invade an entire country because of a terroist attack.
You do when that country’s leadership is deliberately giving those terrorists a base. Again, few other countries at the time disputed this.
That is like saying it is justifed to bomb New York because Biden is helping Israel in their genocide. People are not their governments, going to war for revenge is cruel.
Not really. More like if there was a terrorist base in the US that was being used to bomb Gaza directly and the US was giving them money and equipment to do it.
Well they are giving them money and equipement to do it. The only difference is that isntead of one attack it is complete genocide of people and the fact that the base is not in US but in Isreal. But the support is the same and the crime is even greater. There is no sense to blame Afganistan for 9/11 and not US for genocide.
So so dangerous to have a defense alliance. What is this world coming to.
Iraq was bad so let’s let Russia annex any bit of Europe it wants. Checks out. I was vehemently opposed to Iraq. This is not Iraq. Not all wars are the same
Yeah but USA would have done all that with or with out NATO.
True. I am just saying that NATO is helping them and they are using this as an excuse to get more countries into NATO to help them with their wars.
Lmfao
Can you elaborate?
I don’t think this deserves the attack, guy speaks their mind, perhaps not from the most knowledgeable position, but I think it’s valid nonetheless. There are a lot of arguments being made without really being arguments, more like spoken worries, and I agree with their trepidation, I feel kind of the same way, in that I am wary of the future and not as expediently joyous over the occasion so to speak.
Also, I felt like when the
CEOPrime Minister of Sweden appeared in the House for the State of the Union address to standing ovations felt like we were bringing water and dirt before Xerxes. A half demented, half man half werewolf Xerxes, I have a conspiracy theory that Biden and Trump are the same person. Make of it what you will, the list of US atrocities committed across the world and our common history is a long and dire read, and only seems to get longer every year.I’m glad to know that if “someone” invades Sweden the whole planet will go down in a nuclear holocaust, as a deterrent you know, but at the same time we’re ironically posed before a problem common to Americans and Swedes alike- when it comes to our choices it’s slim pickings.
Putin: If anyone joins NATO there will be dire consequences!
Sweden: Du är inte lika stark som du luktar dumjävel
Have to add a funny FU to Putin that I saw. Yesterday, a B 52, and a B1B did a flyover of Stockholm escorted by Swedish Gripens
I went through to the trouble of translating that, and it was worth it.
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Psychiatry. You need it.
Not Post WWII, it’s Post Napoleon neutrality, the 6th coalition was the last hurrah of Swedish involvement in continental affairs, and thus the beginning of their extended neutrality in such affairs.
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If you tried to look like you need to visit psychiatrist, you did it well enough
NATO just got a little Sweder
Plis stop dö fajting.
So – pure curiosity… Which countries could yet still potentially join NATO.
Switzerland doesn’t join anything ever, so it’s the dark horse. But since everything is done by referendum there, it could change on a dime if the public demanded it.
Austria literally has it in their constitution that they aren’t allowed – but in theory they could change their constitution (unlikely).
Moldova has the whole Transnistria incentive – but NATO would be shy about that one, because that could potentially immediately put them in hot conflict. However, suppose they backdoored their way in by creating a union with Romania (not impossible, but complicated).
Ireland has been neutral forever – but the public support for Ukraine is extremely high. So they might even be possible. Higher than Switzerland anyway ;)
Bosnia and Herzegovina is sort of a special case where they’re sort of partially engaged already.
Serbia is extremely unlikely while they continue to be extremely contemptuous of everyone. That’s fine. Although Kosovo is sort of under NATO protection.
In theory, Georgia or Armenia would be candidates, but Turkey would pooh-pooh Armenia right away, and Georgia has contested territory.
In order of odds, I wager: Ireland, Moldova (via Romania), Georgia+Ukraine (in that order chronologically).
I’m interested in Ireland too, especially in the next few years as the reunification party is resurgent
Ireland has no chance, people here are extremely pro neutrality to the point there were protests when American Airforce jets refueled here. It’s not a case of alignment, it’s that nobody wants to get involved in any sort of conflict.
That was a very long time ago unless I’ve missed something more recent? (Genuine question) Personally think it’s time to re-examine our neutrality
It feels wrong not to support Ukraine militarily.
You’re all very neutral, until it comes to throwing an Englishman in the sea - LAI-DEE-DAI-DEE-DEE!!!
Hi-dilly-hi…hi-dilly-ho…over the side of the boat you go!
Nah we’re all friendly now for the most part. Sporting events excluded naturally where fervent, screaming nationalism from the Irish comes in and the English wonder why we are so angry at them. :D
There was a lot of backlash in the last few months when Leo Varadkar attended a defense conference which was mostly NATO members. He was forced to state that Ireland will not join any military alliance whatsoever. I do agree that it feels wrong to not support countries that realistically we’re aligned with but the Irish military is in such a state that if we tried I’d expect Ukraine to actually donate equipment to us instead
A reunified Ireland could benefit from being in NATO in case England loses their God damn minds and tried to take them back at some point in the future, but I guess those days are over.
Yeah, those days are gone thankfully. Also it would be a mistake of epic proportions to try and subjugate the Irish one last time tbh. Epic proportions.
Don’t fearmonger people just so they can join some wars in the middle east for oil companies. They are under no threat and have only to lose.
To be fair, Ireland doesn’t have the resources or population to be involved in a continental conflict in a impactful way. Getting involved in a war you might not win and might result in the end of your small nation isn’t normally a good idea.
I don’t believe nato could lose a war with Russia, but I don’t blame Ireland for not wanting to risk it
If Russia somehow won a war against NATO and took over all the European NATO countries, which is the vast majority of Europe, what would prevent them from just taking over the leftover bits at that point?
Yeah neutrality is worthless at that point. Sure Hitler wasn’t going to stop with the UK. We were definitely next.
The main advantage it has given us has been as a trusted UN peacekeeper where the Irish Defence Forces have been seen as a neutral third part to conflict and they have done and continue to do solid work abroad in that regard.
Doesn’t Ireland already have defensive pact status with a bunch of NATO members through the EU? If your fellow EU states are being attacked, can you really stay out?
I was surprised to learn Ireland is not in Nato. They should obviously join asap.
Have you seen their support of Palestinians? They’ll never join NATO
Wait, is NATO Zionist or something? Did I miss the memo?
Most member states have been in support of Israel. Most egregious being US and Germany, but France is ranking high. Supporting Israel is quite zionist in my opinion
Lol
Yes. Israel fully depends on US for weapons and finances. Just like NATO. So naturally US government uses both for the same purpose of controlling oil in the middle east.
I have not. In what way do they support Palestine?
The Irish express solidarity on a regular basis. The anticolonial struggle against the English has made them way closer to Palestinians and other colonized peoples than the rest of Europe.
US has authority in Israel and NATO, so they can make both of them fight in these wars that benefit their oil companies. So NATO and Israel are part of the same miltiary force, only run by different puppet governments.
Ukraine
Basically any country that was a previous Russian/Soviet satellite and are not interested in being one anymore.
Personally, I see no reason why ever nation couldn’t join NATO at some point.
I expect “clever” dipshits to be like “NORTH ATLANTIC”, though.
Nothing clever needs to be invoked. It’s baked into the text of the treaty. Article 5 is what’s invoked to bring the whole alliance together to defend against an attack on any one member. However, Article 6 limits Article 5 to attacks within Europe, North America, Turkey, and islands in the Atlantic north of the Tropic of Cancer. Strictly speaking, even an attack on Hawaii wouldn’t invoke it.
I guess countries outside that area could join, but without a change to the treaty, the key clause in the whole thing wouldn’t apply to them.
We got one!
but without a change to the treaty
If only there was some way to address this. I guess we should just start a new alliance if we ever want to accept people outside of the North Atlantic.
Changing that treaty is not going to be easy. There are a lot of parties involved.
Edit: as to your second sentence, there are some thoughts about making a NATO-equivalent for the Pacific.
Maybe they don’t want to die in middle east for US oil companies.
You got downvoted but you’re not wrong. NATO is getting good PR at the moment because of Ukraine, but the invasion of Iraq and Libya are examples of how god-awful NATO is. Iraq was invaded out of trumped up accusations but the real reason is gaining access to Iraqi oil. I remember it was France and UK who were antsy to invade Libya while US refused initially but eventually caved in. Look at the long term implications of such invasions. ISIS sprung up, and Libya is in a civil war causing thousands of refugees which Europe absorbed.
NATO is getting good image at the moment because of recency bias
NATO didn’t participate in the invasion of Iraq, so what exactly are you talking about?
You might remember the term ‘coalition of the willing’. The only major ally the US actually got to come along with us to Iraq was the UK. Everyone else rightfully sat out of that mess.
Good thing the west would never invade anything if they don’t have a defensive pact. Ow wait!
Did Iraq and Libya invade any democracies or NATO? Plenty of coping and short term memories in this thread. Or it could be something else?
Did anyone say they did?
You did.
Wasn’t libya a un coalition?
I thought Switzerland condemned Israel?
Never in a million years would Switzerland condemn Israel. The state loves Israel. Maybe a strongly worder “please don’t kill children in hospitals” was said, but no measures whatsoever were taken
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To Nato
A lot of countries from your list are already very close with NATO, they have NATO offices in their top military command and do most of the military exceraises with NATO. NATO also has a lot of officers of these countries on their paycheck, even some biggest presidentail candidates in these countries are NATO generals.
NATO has a huge control over the netural governments, only reason they don’t join is because of their populations that don’t like NATO countries invading middle east for oil. Mostly in the Balkans that is the case and some of the countries that joined, they did it without referendums against the will of their people. There is a big sentiment of NATO looking imperialistic and treating middle east and the balkans as colonies. Bosnia for example, doesn’t even have real independence, high representitve placed by the west, from the UN can veto anything that is not in their interest. “So far, all of the High Representatives named have been from European Union countries, and their principal deputies have typically been from the United States”
Good. Cry some more Russia.
Tears of a clown plays
Don’t be so blinded by your hatered towards the Russian government to not notice how US used this to strenghten their control over Europe. As horrible as this Russian invasion is, it is nothing compared to the decades of invasions in middle east done by NATO countries. Sweden will have to send their troops now to fight for US oil companies.
Lol, okay, guy.
What did I say wrong?
It’s funny how you dismiss Russia from being involved in the Middle East when it was one of the main reasons why the Middle East is so unstable. Bur continue on saying how bad NATO is.
How is Russia one of the main reasons that Middle East is unstable? Middle Eastern borders where drawn by the NATO mamber states, all terrorist organizastions are now publicly said to be first funded by the CIA. Every war that started in the Middle East was by US invasion and funded coups. Russia is bad and it got involved in some of the confilicts, but lets not be blinded by the hatered towards them so much to forget all the crimes in the Middle East done by our governments and pretend it is Russias fault for everything.
They would get less hatred if they stopped invading their neighbors.
I understand that. I am not saying they are not wrong in this. I am just saying that our governments are using this to extend their power, like they always do and is hurting us even more then the problem itself. As it always does.
You must really like the taste of russian boots, jfc.
Zapp: What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?
Tell my wife I said…hello
Sings: “Did I tell you lately, that I’m neutral…!”
Vikings with axes have joined the conversation…
90% of Sweden are migrants
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Sweden
Church of Sweden and no Religion account for 91% of all swedes. Immigrants with a different religion don’t even account for 10%
Welcome Sweden! It’s good to have you
If feels peculiar. Like when you are the little brother of some guy and he brings you into their club and you become like their mascot or something.
NEUTRALITY! HUH! WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Not much if you’re left to defend yourself against a dictator who likes playing land grab and takes any excuse to rape murder and torture to subjugate as a valid excuse.
Look, I hate war as much as the next guy, but you gotta be pragmatic here. Putin is NOT a nice guy, to make an understatement. Without Putin’s in this world, we wouldn’t need wars, but here we are…
Getting picked off piecemeal by warmongers
Good god y’all!
it’s amazing the chain of effect that happened when putin got so bold that he got orban to not only side with ukraine but also drop opposition to finland joining nato which caused sweden to join
Ramping up for WW3 on schedule.
It’s wild watching all the “human entropy” build up at the same time to hit in a really shitty fruition of shittiness. Religious conflict and genocide in Gaza, hottest planet records month after month, Russia/china/North Korea building up for WW3, a massive rise in fascism across western nations, with a culmination in this year’s US presidential election, unprecedented corporate profits as inflation skyrockets, AI companies abandoning ethics for financial gains as the LLMs rapidly grow in capability
It’s like Murphy’s law hitting the planet all at once, we’d just need some new COVID super strain to hit right as WW3 kicks off to be the cherry on top
Sell all of your assets and build a self-sufficient ranch on New Zealand. Looking at WW3 projections it’s going to be one of the places untouched by a nuclear war and won’t feel the effects of a nuclear winter as harsh as other places. Hmm, it looks like that the billionaires building their doomsday bunkers at New Zealand has the same idea.
lol “all of my assets.” If my net worth is debt, then perhaps my ranch will be built from anti-matter
Yeah Imma part with my Bionicles and Beyblades for the safety ranch.
😂
The one rogue nuke hitting New Zealand would be a heavy hit to Peter Thiel and his buddies’ apocalypse plans as they continue to buy up the whole country.
I think Covid actually delayed it! I don’t think we will be as “lucky” if a second round comes.
Ironically it’s like it delayed it to occur when everything else is beginning to rear its head. Everyone was so focused on Covid they couldn’t be shitty for a little bit. Not anymore. WW3 is one thing, WW3 with a fascist, fractured west is another
What I don’t get is the sissy sub fascists nowadays. The dumb fucks generally want to wage war with everybody and now that there are legitimate threats to their precious Vaterlands they are pacifists all of a sudden. I get it, they a funded largely by russia and china etc, but do they really think they won’t get shafted when the west collapses? Absolute omega farts.
Someone didnt get their Hoodsie today.
NATO is strictly a defensive alliance so any power that did start WW3 would be pretty damn stupid to be aggressive against NATO. And better for everyone this way, rather than give Russia a chance to chew up Eastern Europe country by country like they tried against Ukraine, Georgia and Chechnia.
NATO is defensive only on paper. Almost all of the wars in the World right now started with invasion of NATO countries in middle east and african countries still unofficaly under collonial rule of western european countries.
This is classic case of fearmongering. Russia can’t even win a war in Ukraine, despite local support of some of the Crimean citizens and proximity to their nations. They can’t get to Sweeden by the end of this century, Meanwhile, NATO is the biggest war allience this World has ever seen and it is scary how centralized the power in the World has become and US oil companies running the whole show.
You keep spewing out this Putin Propaganda, yet nobody cares since it is obviously false.
How much do you get paid by Putin?
Blink twice if your family is in danger of being pushed out of a window.
If only thing you can say to someone who is proving you wrong that they must be paid by some boogieman, you are insane. Just because I critize the government doesn’t mean I support other governments. This is some cold war type of red scare. During cold war if you speak about worker rights you are branded a communist soviet spy. Now you say that NATO is resposible for wars that they admit to, you are all of a sudden a russian bot.
It’s generally suspicious when someone with atrocious grammar and spelling says Russia isn’t a real problem, but NATO is, and then shows a fundamental misunderstanding of NATO and can’t distinguish formal NATO action from other Western military action.
What you’re doing wrong is trying to reason with people who are just not the reasoning kind…
