By that I mean, it must be an inherently comforting thing to think - we inherently know this and want there to be something after death, because it feels right, or more meaningful. There’s a reason basically every civilization ever has some sort of afterlife ethos.
I realize I am basically horseshoeing my way into evangelicalism but still. Maybe life was better if we believed there was something beyond this. [edit - please note that yes, the world is shitty, things are awful and getting worse, and that is exactly my point – we get THIS SHIT, and nothing else? god that’s awful]
I’m depressed at the wealthy marching the planet off a cliff for profit at the cost of everyone else.
Modern science didn’t have to prove to me that unicorns, elves, and fairies don’t actually exist. Somehow, I figured that out on my own and moved on.
A horned horse to me makes more sense than the concept that is usually called “god”.
Especially makes more sense than narwhals.
“I figured that out on my own” -> science
Figuring it out on your own is science, but I have a feeling OP didn’t actually personally search the world for one-horned horses or pointy eared-people with long lifespans. I bet they didn’t even work out how biology changes with scale and how evolution works to show that there can’t be tiny winged people.
Yes you’re right. It’s more an untested hypothesis and no (counter) evidence has appeared by themselves to OC yet.
Modern science didn’t have to prove to me that unicorns, elves, and fairies don’t actually exist. Somehow, I figured that out on my own and moved on.
If you take the right things, you will see fairies and so much more
Somebody did their own research.
Yeah surely it’s the afterlife what caused my depression. Not the unemployment, my inability to find a job in the industry I’ve spent years of education, not my finances, not trying to figure out how to afford the dentist, not the state of my personal relationships and friendships no no no. It’s the afterlife
I was raised Catholic, but as time went on and I left it, I think one of the misconceptions people who are still deeply religious have is that atheists or non-religious people are continually thinking about NOT having religion as much as religious people think about their religion, but the fact of the matter is, sometimes MONTHS go by where I don’t have a single thought about religion, the afterlife, God… When you grow up in an organized religion you tend to feel the lack of religion is some kind of continual rejection of it, and it’s hard to imagine people for whom it just isn’t a presence in ANY sense. When you realize the presence of religion is neither necessary or sufficient for any part of life, you can start to see how life satisfaction or lack thereof has nothing to do with belief. There are horribly depressed devout worshipers and annoyingly peppy and positive atheists. It’s an entirely different axis.
This is an insightful observation.
I was raised Catholic as well, stopped going to Mass when I left home in my early 20s, and just never missed it. As a child I think I believed but as an adult religious belief seems completely unnecessary.
My son, who was raised an atheist, is now deeply religious—he’s a Benedictine monk (no, we didn’t see that coming!)—but even when visiting him religion seems like a lot of nonsense to me. (He’s happy and we accept his choice despite not sharing his beliefs.)
Science hasn’t proven any of that, nor is it interested in it. Those are untestable claims made by religious institutions.
As for why I’M depressed, it’s because all forms of agency that I consider important have been stripped of me. I’m trying to claw my way back, but the system is setup against it.
…all forms of agency that I consider important have been stripped of me.
This.
Na, it’s more likely that worker wages have not kept up with productivity or inflation, we are killing the planet because it is cheaper/more profitable than not killing it, and the people who we vote for to lead us to better times are doing fuck all.
A depression is an illness. “Feeling depressed” is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is a bodily malfunction that needs to be treated with appropriate medicine.
If believing in some “higher being” or “the afterlife” helps an individual to deal with the symptoms of a depression that’s great, but not believing such things does not cause a depression.
science has probably proven there is no god / afterlife
Well, for one, you “probably proven” doesn’t make a whole lot of sense unless maybe you’ve got a paper waiting on peer review confirmation. In any case, it is exceedingly difficult to definitely prove something isn’t for cases like this. Does every bit of evidence point to ‘no’? Yes. However, it’s still technically not proven to be false/absent.
Anyway, that’s not the actual important part here. One human lifetime is generally a long time. There are lots of meaningful interactions that a person can have in that time. I would argue that, since it’s not an eternity, the pressure is on to do something better with your life. That doesn’t require gods or afterlives. Volunteer, meet up about hobbies, find a social group, etc.
we inherently know this and want there to be something after death, because it feels right, or more meaningful
I disagree. For one, if you get do-overs on life or an eternity to do whatever, isn’t it inherently LESS meaningful since there are no stakes? Secondarily, I personally don’t like the idea of trying to exist for an eternity; that sounds like it always ends in boring monotony… at least so much as something ‘endless’ ‘ends’ anyway (English be silly).
For one, if you get do-overs on life or an eternity to do whatever, isn’t it inherently LESS meaningful since there are no stakes?
I don’t know of any religion in which you get do overs with no stakes
Religions that support reincarnation is one, though most would say you get reincarnated as something more/less favorable depending upon the life lived.
By no stakes above, I was mostly referring to an eternal amount of time to do anything, supposing a bit that one could accomplish a lot in many of the version of afterlife I’ve heard of. I wasn’t thinking of it in a ‘no morals’ or similar way, but I can see how it could be read as such.
In most religions I know, the afterlife is mainly to live with the consequences of what you did. It’s not just more life
One human lifetime is generally a long time
No it’s not. Just a mere few decades. Less than nothing. And then it ends.
Im an atheist and im not even remotely depressed. I live everyday to the fullest because I know it might be my last day on earth, all we are guaranteed is right now. And once I die I dont need the superstition of an afterlife, I believe that I will live on in the positive influence Ive had on many people.
No. It’s because of lifestyle choices affecting diet, exercise, and sleep. But it does help to believe in something and feel a strong sense of purpose and meaning in life.
Science is a tool for answering questions about the physical world. By definition, it can’t provide complete answers about things outside the physical realm.
Not really.
There are tons of religious people who are depressed. I just see that, compared to today, there was a giant social stigma to being mentally unwell. People chose to hide being depressed.
I also see a lot of non-neurotypical behaviors being explained away as “being weird”.
Never found the idea of god particularly comforting
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Really? Science disproved God? News to me, could you tell me more?
Didn’t disprove, just made clear that the odds are inconceivably low.
I’m not religious, but I want to add that the chance of us existing right now are inconceivably low so that’s not really an argument against God.
You don’t understand statistics. It’s the opposite. The odds of life not existing in a universe this incomprehensibly large are infinitesimally small.
It would be far more notable if 4+billion years of this shit and none of the literally countless planets (in our galaxy alone.) capable of hosting life contained life.
No, science simply doesn’t (and can’t) provide any answers or odds for or against god.
God by definition isn’t subject to the laws of nature, and all science does is observe nature and come up with theories that fit the observation.It’s statistics, not science.
But it’s pretty clear you have a tenuous grasp on both, at best.
OK, what numbers go into those statistics? How do you calculate the odds of god existing? Should be precise, since it’s math.
0
please show your work
I was just being goofy there, bud. I don’t think the possibility is zero, just very very low. And let’s remember that the onus is not on me to disprove anything. That is not how logic or epistemology works. I’m not the one making the extraordinary claim here…
Frankly, if I’m being honest, I just don’t feel like having this type of conversation right now. I don’t believe there is anything either of us could say that would change the others’ mind, and I would rather enjoy my Sunday (a day that became far more enjoyable when I left Christianity and reclaimed the day for myself).
For many, life feels meaningful when… you can achieve goals you desire, improve things in a meaningful way for others, work at a job where you feel you are using your skills to build something notable, or have meaningful, successful relationships with people.
But, at least in the US… education is ruinously expensive, and is far from a ticket to a meaningful job in many cases, and there is more data than ever showing that, basically, if you are not born wealthy, or absurdly lucky, you’ll end up doing worse than your parents.
The world is warming, previously absurd weather is now basically normal, infrastructure falling apart, scams are everywhere, personal debt levels are generally rising to the point that a significant number of people have to finance their groceries.
Divorce rates are high, huge numbers of people either cannot afford the time or money to put into developing a relationship with a life partner. Birth rates continue to decline.
Oh, and we appear to be falling ass backwards into theocratic fascism.
In my estimation, people are more depressed because their material conditions continue to deteriorate, and they realize they are less likely to achieve their dreams, much less what were considered ‘normal life patterns’ by the previous generations (home ownership, family).
The way I see it, meaning in life comes from agency, and beyond that, your ability to decide what is and is not worth doing, learning, cultivating.
Put more and more people in worse and worse conditions, lessen their actual ability to act, to achieve, and many will despair.
…
Personally, I think that religion basically functions as a crutch for those otherwise unable to mentally process the gravity of mortality, by simply telling the believer that death is not really death, everything continues, and if you are good, you will be immortal and happy.
If you take that away, you are left with the world as it is, your life as it is, and you must grapple with a reality that you are finite, in duration and capacity.
…
Its funny you bring up other ancient traditions.
The ancient Greek gods were said to envy mortals.
They found the limited lifespans of mortals made their every action and thought more meaningful, more consequential, more tragic when thrown away, more beautiful when they accomplished great deeds.
