Was just talking at dinner with family, and it seems a logical action to ban circumcision, as in most cases, doesn’t have consent, and is a major (genitals are important) body modification. Can we ban it at the state level? Just a thought.
There is a lot of misinformation in this post. Here’s a snippet of my research about the anatomy of the penis and the damage of circumcision causes.
The foreskin has specialized nerve endings called Meissner’s Corpsucles located at the tip in an area called the ridged band. It is connected to the penis by the extension of the shaft skin in areas called the outer foreskin and the inner foreskin. The inner foreskin is rich with sensory receptors and is a inner mucosa similar to the inside of our cheeks. It keeps the glans moist and protected from the environment. The inner foreskin is attached to the head of the penis by a membrane called the frenulum. The frenulum is an erogenous zone that is mostly removed by a circumcision procedure.
When a child or baby is circumcised, the foreskin is forcibly removed from the glans which scars and damages the glans. The foreskin is adhered to the glans like a fingernail. When a boy hits puberty the foreskin naturally retracts. In rare cases, phimosis happens which is when the foreskin is unable to retract. Non-surgical solutions to phimosis are stretching the foreskin over a span of time and/or applying steroid creme.
Circumcision is extremely painful for babies and children. Cortisol spikes in babies when they are circumcised. Babies will pass out during the procedure as many circumcisions are done with inadequate anesthetic.
The foreskin is self-cleaning like the vagina. Rinsing in the shower is enough usually for hygiene. Caregivers who retract the foreskin of their children will damage the child’s genitals. The only person who should retract the foreskin is the children as it will naturally retract with age. Some boys are unable to retract their foreskin until their late teens or early adulthood.
This information is not foreign to the medical world. Most medical and political professionals have a bias for the circumcision ritual. Circumcision is the same for boys as it is for girls as the objective of circumcision is to harm the sexual function of the child.
Modern circumcision for males is extremely harsh as it removes 60-80% of penile skin. Many men do not have frenulums from the procedure. It is possible to repair some of the damage by using mitosis to restore skin coverage. It is not currently possible to repair tissue that was completely removed. Foregen is a non-profit researching ways to completely repair the damage caused by circumcision.
For men impacted by this and want to do something for themselves
- Look into foreskin restoration
- Donate to foregen
Warning that this topic draws a lot of insane people with genital mutilation fetishes. Any of the comments advocating for circumcision are either men who were circumcised against their will, women who circumcised their children and haven’t accepted the truth, or weirdos who want others to suffer.
Thank you so much for writing this up. I really appreciate the detailed post.
Most medical and political professionals have a bias for the circumcision ritual.
I think it’s important to point out that this bias is mostly cultural. In many countries where ritual infant circumcision is the exception instead of the norm, medical personnel do not have a bias towards RIC.
Foreskin restoration is legit (even if it may sound crazy like regrowing limbs). I know we collectively dislike Reddit on here, but the subreddit /r/foreskin_restoration has a really supportive and welcoming community and a lot of resources about how to get started (check their wiki).
Personally I find it a lot more disturbing that intersex babies are still assgined a binary gender by a doctor and then get surgery to shape their genitals. The parents are often scaremongered and pressured into consenting and the affected people don’t know it was done to them until firmly into adulthood. It’s often a sterilising surgery too.
If you are against doctors doing gender changing surgery, please start with the babies? But oh no! Then the argument that there are only two genders falls apart.
It would require that a significant portion of the population admit their parents mutilated them as infants.
For some reason, they refuse to admit they were mutilated without their consent.
Some of them have subsequently mutilated their own sons, and admitting that was mutilation is beyond their capacity.
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I was circumcised, I don’t have a problem with that fact. I understand why people do have a problem with circumcision and I don’t have an issue with it being banned.
Don’t try to induce mental trauma in me for my past that I’m not bothered by.
Good for you not being bothered by it. But I think it’s rather easy to imagine that it can be a traumatizing experience and lead to psychological or physiological injuries. So it’s a medical procedure that should only be prescribed by doctors or if you are an adult.
Sure, I’m not arguing against that. I’m arguing against this mentality that everyone who has been circumcised should be carrying trauma over it, or must be carrying trauma but are lying to themselves. Don’t say you’re fighting on my behalf for something that doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
I have been physically punished when I did something bad as a kid. I’m not traumatized by that either but I still think it’s good that it’s illegal nowdays.
I agree. And if people went around claiming you must be traumatized over it and lying to yourself you’d say they’re full of shit. If someone was trying to convince you to be traumatized about it you’d tell them to fuck off.
I don’t think they’re saying people are traumatized. That word has a meaning. They’re saying people have issue reconciling the fact that their parents would do something like that to them and also that their parents are generally good people. Many people would rather not even consider that it wasn’t the right call, because it makes it easier to hold those two beliefs at the same time. However, people make mistakes. Those aren’t contradictory ideas if you can understand that people can be mislead.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you a persons who is refusing to admit.
Thanks for demonstrating my point so effectively.
What? They’re not bothered by it how the fuck is that refusing to admit anything? Does that mean if two people get jumped scared in a dark room and one for the rest of their life needs a light on in their room and the other doesn’t that they are secretly traumatized? No it doesn’t.
Also circumcision happens at birth most of the time so many people (myself included) don’t remember it. It should absolutely be illegal but as the other person said don’t tell someone what traumas they faced and how they should be effected.
You’re a clown
so many people (myself included) don’t remember it.
"She doesn’t remember being raped, so it’s ok’.
I have a neutral stance on circumcision. Do what you please. I just wish people like you could try to prove a point without using “mutilation” over and over to make it sound worse than it actually is. It puts an agenda on your point and biases it. There’s nothing mutilated about it. It’s just altered.
If you consider this to be mutilation then that would also mean you think any gender affirming surgery is also mutilation. And one could much easier argue that converting a penis to a vagina is far more mutilating than just removing some extra skin from a penis.
So if you’re trying to convince people to stop circumcision, stop using overly dramatic words and just explain why it’s not necessary. Otherwise I’ll just roll my eyes at people like you.
If you consider this to be mutilation then that would also mean you think any gender affirming surgery is also mutilation.
No one gets gender reassignment surgery until they can concentyi it as an adult.
False equivalence.
Here’s another question along the same lines - my friend when I was a kid developed gynecomastia, commonly known as “breast knots” when he was 14. They’re completely harmless, but they made it look like he had boobs. Cute little A cups on this otherwise very boy-presenting person. For some reason, no one thought it was “against God’s plan” or “mutilating his body” or “part of the gender agenda” when this 14 year old boy had a purely cosmetic double mastectomy. I wonder why no one batted an eye at a child receiving gender-affirming cosmetic surgery just because he wanted to in this particular case.
Circumcisions should be banned because they are mutilating children’s genitals without consent. At least trans medical procedures have consent.
I think it’s just religious people being hypocrites again. Hard to convince delusional people of facts when they make up what they believe based on the circumstances. The decisions of religious cults shouldn’t have more power than the decisions of individual people. Completely crazy what this country is devolving into
Trans surgical procedures have some of the best outcomes of any major procedures. they are performed on consenting individuals who are always well informed and at or very near adulthood, and only after many other interventions have been ongoing. People who receive these interventions show incredibly low rates of regret (compare for example the percent of people who regret knee replacements or probably circumcisions), and enjoy increased happiness and satisfaction by almost any metric.
Basically every major medical organization in the world (and certainly in America) agrees these interventions are medically useful and should be performed. While there are doctors who dissent, they are in the vast minority and almost never actually work with any trans people, but rather insist all the doctors who do work with trans people must be wrong. It’s not a controversy in the medical world, just the political one.
Then we shall ban dentists too. They never had my consent to touch my teeth.
How many healthy and functional teeth have you had inconsensually removed from your skull by a dentist?
Did they remove your perfectly healthy canines because a bronze-age book said dogs are unclean? If not, get the fuck out of here with your infant penis mutilation apologetics.
There is scientific evidence that circumcision results in the area being cleaner and easier to maintain. I’m not denying it is child mutilation, but you also shouldn’t just sweep it under the rug as religious bullshittery.
And if you shave your head, you don’t have to brush your hair.
It’s not really about the evidence though.
45 years ago my parents genuinely thought they were doing the right thing by asking the Dr to circumcise me.
They weren’t great at critical thinking and have made numerous poor decisions in their lives as a result of vibe-based reasoning.
You can say I was “mutilated” if you like, but I don’t feel like a victim.
My parents also supported my education, where I learned to be skeptical, and challenge my preconceptions.
As a result, I didn’t have my son circumcised.
Honestly such a weak argument. Having helped my uncircumcised son learn to keep himself clean, I can probably say this myth needs to be laid to rest already. It’s just not true.
it’d be easier to brush your teeth if you didn’t have any teeth
Does your teeth develop phimosis?
No. But, if they were to I reckon if I’d have the dentist look at them and decide what to do then…rather than rip 'em all out preemptively.
Well one is done precautionary as it doesn’t have any big life altering side effects while removing all your teeth does. I understand your enthusiasm but a little medical knowledge wouldn’t hurt no one. It’s also more difficult to get circ done after growing up.
Well one is done precautionary as it doesn’t have any big life altering side effects
I mean, reduced sensation, higher rates of some kinds of sexual difficulty later in life, and like anything that causes pain and stress to a neonate there are signs that it can have long term psychological effects.
You would only notice it if you get it done after growing up. I don’t understand the logic here. Have you been circumcised?
Most cultures in the world don’t circumcise and it doesn’t cause much issue. It’s only the US where it became so common, because the wacko Kellogg had enough money to push his weird ideas, and somehow people still follow it. You should follow his other “preventative” ideas if you think circumcision is such a great idea.
Here’s a good video to get more ideas from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ4ES8mOzYg
If god wanted my parents to cut part of my dick off why did she put it there in the first place? Are you saying god made a mistake?
So, yeah. To paraphrase, “When reviewed by people without the same clear and obvious cultural bias, circumcision only conclusively provides an incredibly marginal benefit, with evidence lacking for other supposed (and still very marginal) benefits.”
Not just cleaner but you are also less prone to certain infections. I am circumcised, but it was done as a child. Knowing what I know now, I am glad since it decreases the risk for certain cancers and infections.
I never had not have ever heard of anyone I know having infections or cancers because of a foreskin.
Some studies have suggested that circumcision may help prevent penile cancer.
Decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
Decreased risk of penile cancer.
Decreased risk of sexually transmitted infections
Suggested. “However, this is unverified”
Okay mate.
Suggested is my phrasing. The studies are pretty conclusive.
The first link says it’s unverified, and also says “suggest”, not your phrasing.
Cutting a piece of your baby’s junk off for no other reason then everyone does it is a really weird thing that I’ve never been able to wrap my head around.
I’m not religious but I at least can understand if it’s for religious reason, there’s a point to it, even if I don’t agree with/understand the point. But people seem to just do it for no reason aside from it’s what people do. It’s forced genital mutilation anyway you look at it.
There are medical reasons to remove. If the foreskin isn’t cleaned well (challenging for toddlers) it can get infected which prevents it from separating, which is very dangerous.
If your foot isn’t cleaned well, it can get infected and potentially cause sepsis, which is very dangerous. Should we be removing children’s feet?
No, obviously not. The time for invasive, nonconsentual medical intervention is when it is medically necessary, and circumcision does not fit the bill.
“The CPS does not recommend the routine circumcision of every newborn male.”
“It is shown that the foreskin is more sensitive than the uncircumcised glans mucosa, which means that after circumcision genital sensitivity is lost.” - Meaning circumcision is quite a damaging procedure, which means the justification for it must be high. And as a preventive measure for which the things being prevented won’t happen for a decade and a half or longer, isn’t justified.
If the foreskin isn’t cleaned well (challenging for toddlers)
Newborns should not have their foreskin pulled back for cleaning, as the separation can cause damage. IIRC it’s only a bit before puberty that it is safe to gently (not forcibly) pull back the foreskin.
Nah mate. They had to remove mine because is overgrew my gland and was so tight that I would have pee between the foreskin and the gland layong around, and it was impossible to unhook. The alternative would have been to cut it open and have dumbo’s ear flapping everytime I’d take my dick out. No partner ever complained, and I don’t give à shit about it.
I wouldn’t circumsize a kid if it wasn’t necessary, but when an operation takes place specifically for medical reasons, it’s because there is no other solution. Like when a foot id so gangrenous that you have to remove it or it will propagate the necrosis to the leg.
Are you trolling? Or just finding it very difficult to understand what you are replying to? I’m genuinely asking here.
“Nah mate”, to someone saying it has to be a medical necessity… Following it up with “it was a medical necessity in my case”, and then arguing the same point of it needing to be a medical necessity… It’s just a bit too on-the-nose, that it seems more likely to be intentional, than just… Well, what it looks like
As someone whose circumcision worked out perfectly fine and can’t imagine myself without one, I still think it should be banned for babies and children under 18 for any reason other than medical necessity. Even a slight risk of problems outweighs the ‘my dad did it and he turned out fine’ or religious tradition arguments.
It should not be banned for adults who voluntarily choose it for themselves though.
Sometimes people have a medical reason for circumcision. My buddy had it done in his late 20’s because it was difficult enough to keep clean that it was causing problems.
Also I might be out of the loop, where are trans medical procedures banned?
I would have loved to have the option to keep my hoodie on or not. I have a wicked crooked scar down there too. It doesn’t keep me up at night but if I was given the choice I would have said no.
(at the risk of making a truly stupid joke)
You could wear some pants instead of trying to cover it with just a hoodie.
Its hard trying to get that perfect band of skin to show between the bottom of the hoodie and the top of the thigh highs.
Honestly, thigh highs + hoodie + “is there any clothes under that hoodie?” is peak fashion.
Thanks, you’ve really added value…
But I gotta know, was it a baggy hoodie?
Just because something is banned doesn’t mean we should ban other things to make it “fair”.
As another poster noted, not all parents are great. Not all parents want to do the work of cleaning their babies. Circumcision might be the best option for them. Maybe the baby doesn’t even have proper parents to care for them. Maybe circumcision is needed for medical purposes. There’s a million reasons we shouldn’t speculate into, as it’s none of our business.
Everyone on both sides of the argument should stop hyper focusing on people’s genitals. Let people make their own decisions. We don’t need the government saying what we can and can’t do. Whenever the government intervenes, they inevitably fuck things up. Live and let live. Don’t want to get circumcised or don’t want your kid to? Then don’t. But don’t force people to do something because you believe it in. It doesn’t make anyone any better than the people they are arguing against, even if their intentions are good.
As a final note, I do support everyone’s right to modify their body however they see fit, including gender affirming care. If a parent makes a decision on their baby’s behalf, then that is the parents decision, and no law should be able to dictate otherwise.
I’m open to having my mind changed, but this just seems like the pendulum swinging too far in the other direction.
I do support everyone’s right to modify their body however they see fit, including gender affirming care
Well…this seems sensible. It’s a personal decision so it’s everyone’s right…
If a parent makes a decision on their baby’s behalf, then that is the parents decision, and no law should be able to dictate otherwise.
Oh, I see. Except the baby.
Lmao right? What a ridiculous thing to say.
Should parents not have the right to make decisions on behalf of their own children, until they develop the faculties to make their own decisions?
A baby isn’t aware that it may need to be circumcised for any reason.
What’s the correct response here? Like I said, I’m open to other ideas, but babies cannot make decisions for themselves.
Not if it implies cutting off parts of their body for no medically accepted reason.
If he has a medical issue and circumcision is the solution, sure. If it’s for the common bulshit reasons, hell no, why is that even a question?
Sure, sure, fair enough. But who gets to dictate if the reason is valid. You? Me? The government? I don’t think any of those is an acceptable answer. To me, the answer is the parents, and their medical practitioner. It shouldn’t be anyone else’s business.
Medical decisions are decided by a medical doctor. This is not hard.
… Right. So we agree.
The long and short of my argument is that the government shouldn’t have a say in any of it. Banning circumcision and banning gender affirming care are both stupid decisions. Anyone advocating for government intervention in personal matters is no better than all the bible thumpers injecting their religious beliefs into social policy. It’s a slippery slope when we vote to give the government power, as they seldom relinquish it. Just because the government exerts its power enforcing something you fundamentally believe in doesn’t mean it’s correct. The pendulum swings both ways, and just because it benefits your cause now does not mean it always will.
Furthermore, whatever you decide is a “common bullshit reason”, can be used against you and others down the road.
Anyway, I feel like I’m spinning my tires here. Vote on these things however you like, but if you or someone you love ever needs some sort of procedure that has been banned for a “common bullshit reason” in the eyes of whoever is deciding the policy, you will reap what you sow.
Circumcision is taking a kid and doing something irreversible to them without consent. Trans treatment is taking a kid and preventing irreversible things from happening until they consent.
Maybe it’s too early in the morning, but can you explain what you mean by the latter point? I’m under the impression trans treatment is provided for individuals seeking gender affirming care, with parent agreement if the individual is a minor. Your statement sounds like only the parent is consenting…
EDIT: Thanks, EatATaco. So my confusion lies in the equating puberty to hormone therapy. Similar, but not the same.
I think what they are saying is that puberty is irreversible and so trans care delays that until a child consents to going through puberty.
Read it again.
circumcision is in the Bible, gender reassignment surgery is not. That’s where they’re going to hang their hats… on the invisible sky ghost.
Um, ackshually, eunuchs are in the Bible, including Jesus saying that some people “become eunuchs” to get closer to God. So…
Hot take: I have never regretted being circumcized and never met anyone who regretted being circumcized so banning it doesn’t make sense for that reason alone. Some parents pierce their children’s ears without their consent, some give them frenectomies, pull teeth, reshape heads, bind feet, or do a variety of other “elective” procedures so I’m not sure why circumcision has so much hate.
I know we have never met (and after having read your previous post i am quite okay with that), but I hate the fact i am circumcised. I have severe loss of feeling from it. My father said he regretted it the instant it was done and would have never agreed to it if he knew the way i was going to scream.
I personally cannot regret being circumcised, as i had nothing to do with it other than being born with a foreskin.
Google is right there buddy. Just google “people regretting being circumsized” before spearding this cult shit lol
That dude just listed a bunch of horrendous mutilations and went “if that’s ok then…”.
Critical thinking fail there.
Because Jeesssuuuusssssss
If we ban circumcision does that then mean it’s okay to keep trans medical procedures banned aswell or that we shouldn’t ban neither? I’m not sure the reasoning is sound here. Circumcision without the subject’s concent is an obviously barbaric tradition that we will look back with horror one day.
no. trans medical procedures are consentual.
