• o1011o@lemmy.world
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    19 hours ago

    Do you understand the difference between capitalism and commerce? Using money for trade isn’t what makes capitalism what it is. Capitalism is, from wikipedia, “An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development occurs through the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market” Capitalism means that I can own something I have nothing to do with and you have to pay me for the privilege of using it. When that thing is housing or food or medicine then I own you unless you want to die.

    Capitalism means taking from the worker and giving to the ‘owner’. The problem is that work is real and ownership is a made up concept.

    The more you learn about it the more you’ll understand how evil it is, I promise.

    • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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      12 hours ago

      I think your whole first paragraph is just posturing, maybe i did speak incorrectly, i dont care.

      In your economic system, if I make a machine that makes something, and sell it to a guy, what happens to that machine if what it makes is important or valuable?

        • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          Try being less dumb? Other people have already given answers so it cant’ve been too hard.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        12 hours ago

        How are you making your machine? Does it literally create something from nothing? Why would what it creates have any value if it can be infinitely easily produced, even if important? If it obeys the laws of physics, why would you be able to compete with large, mass scale industry as a single person?

        Your question largely doesn’t make any sense.

        • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          No, you just decided my machine must be useless, because if it it useful, you’ve gotten my point.

          You dirty Commie.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            2 hours ago

            Please elaborate on what you mean, your thought experiment made no sense. And yes, I’m a Communist, correct.

            • RaptorBenn@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              No, I wont elaborate, yes it does. And you aren’t a communist, you just like the idea, like the history repeating idiot you are.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                2 hours ago

                Seems more like a dodge for you to avoid making an argument, but you do you. Don’t know what you mean by claiming I’m not a Communist, either, who counts as a Communist in your eyes?

                  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                    2 hours ago

                    Considering Communism as a Mode of Production refers to a relatively far-future, fully publicly owned global economy, humanity hasn’t reached Communism and thus by your definition nobody has ever been a Communist. This, of course, isn’t true, a Communist is someone who generally follows Communist ideology and wishes to bring about Communism.

                    This is just a non-sequitor no true Scotsman, and seems to be deflection.

      • Tetragrade@leminal.space
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        11 hours ago

        Hello, different person here. It’s understandable that you’re confused by this tbh, but there are real proposals.

        Broadly, there are two basic suggestions:

        1. All businesses would be nationalised. You would develop the machine as part of your job, or sell the rights to the government.
        2. There are still independent businesses like now, but they’re controlled by the people that work and use them. As a Kingdom is to a Democracy, an Owned Company is to a Participatory Company (Communists call them cooperatives, Corporatists call them corporations). The former country/company is controlled by the people that own it, whereas the latter is controlled by the people that are affected by its decisions (at least in theory). In real life people don’t really buy manufacturing machines, they do it through a company. So your sale would be the same, it’d just be to a different kind of company.

        It’s not one or the other and they’re often combined.

        It isn’t fair for a king to control an army and do what he likes with it, that’s dangerous. The army has to be controlled by the people of the nation. But, if you and your friends want to privately own guns, that’s fine. So long as you aren’t organising into a militia, it does little harm.

        Critics say, likewise: if your machine is small, who cares. But if it’s sufficiently powerful, if it could concentrate wealth and power in your hands, create mass unemployment (maybe even allow you to wield military): that’s harm. A machine like that should be controlled by the people.

          • Tetragrade@leminal.space
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            11 hours ago

            ok commie

            Yeah idk I removed those because it’s not a very good introductory text imo.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              11 hours ago

              I don’t really get it, are you calling me a commie in a deragatory way and downvoting me after you tried to spread Communist theory? I’m confused.

              • Tetragrade@leminal.space
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                11 hours ago

                I’m some kinda new-wave radical centrist, can’t call myself one after reading your big book. I believe in a lot of the criticisms and measures, but I think LTV & Vanguardism are the literal dumbest shit ever. But good luck with them, and thanks for taking an interest.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  10 hours ago

                  What’s wrong with Marx’s Law of Value, and what’s wrong with the concept of a Vanguard? What “big book” are you referring to, Capital, or the Manifesto of the Communist Party?