I wish Valve would make a Steam Phone. They seem to know how to do Linux devices.
Valve laptop to revive the thinkpad glory days
Hell, I think even Raspberry Pi Foundation getting into the phone market would be a game changer too.
A lot of the libcamera work done on Raspberry Pi boards is going towards improving the camera support on linux phones like the PinePhone, which is great!
Aside from that, sadly a lot of people (including myself) are kind of fed up with Raspberry Pi, after they essentially abandoned their mission during Covid to please corporations, and are preparing to go public despite being a “charity”. Broadcom, their SoC supplier, also has left a sour taste in my mouth after their purchase and mass layoffs at VMWare.
If they created a phone it would likely end up being scalped to death, and maybe pretty pricey compared to a PinePhone
Aside from that, sadly a lot of people (including myself) are kind of fed up with Raspberry Pi, after they essentially abandoned their mission during Covid to please corporations
Just out of curiosity, could you state what you think their mission was?
(I’m just wondering if anybody even remembers their original original mission.)
AFAIK their original mission was along the lines of making computers accessible at a low price point, particularly targeting the education sector in parts of the world where computers weren’t very accessible or affordable. Comparable to the OLPC, but not on an individual basis
I could be wrong though
Remember when they donated one pi for every one sold?
they don’t know to make a good android app, and you want them to make an entire cellphone💀💀
They made an entire Linux-powered portable game system that’s revolutionizing Linux gaming at the moment…an embedded engineer is not the same skillset as an app developer. Not even close.
They made a device with a proprietary operating system and proprietary software. If you really want that, why not just use Android?
Since when is Arch proprietary?
Steam OS is proprietary.
But Arch contains proprietary firmware, so technically it’s not fully free software either.
SteamOS is open source with some closed sources component. But most important think you seems not being able to understand is that Valve provide high support to Open source community, which means it wouldn’t be surprising if they decided to drop a open source phone.
SteamOS is open source with some closed sources component.
So it is not free software. It’s proprietary, unethical software that takes away your freedom. Just like Windows, Android, etc.
But most important think you seems not being able to understand is that Valve provide high support to Open source community, which means it wouldn’t be surprising if they decided to drop a open source phone.
By doing what? They only want to lock you in their proprietary platform. Most of heir software is proprietary, their games are proprietary and they restrict users with DRM. It’s a terrible company, which abuses their users. If Steam Deck contains proprietary software, why would their phone by anything different?
Linux phones will need to run established Android apps to get users, devs won’t move where there is no users, users won’t move there if there aren’t apps. It’s almost cyclical
Right now we’re working with people who are exceptions to this, users who want to experiment and devs who don’t care about money.
Waydroid runs decently on the pinephone. On a phone with better specs, it might be downright usable for proprietary apps.
Potentially a proton-style layer could really ease transition, like on the steamdeck
BlackBerry 10 was actually a pretty slick OS that supported Android apps and you could even side-load Google Play services.
Progressive Web Apps. Web programs broke the need for Microsoft Windows.
Agreed. Classic story that has been repeated several times over the years. Ecosystem is everything.
Microsoft’s Windows phones were fantastic. They had super nice hardware, high refresh rate screens, better cameras on their flagship models than iPhones at the time.
They were sleek, fast, the Windows tile UI actually worked great on a phone touchscreen. But it didn’t matter to most consumers because they didn’t have apps. MS had their own business apps…and that was about it. Didn’t matter that every other aspect of the phones were great, people couldn’t do what they wanted to on the Windows phones, so they didn’t buy them.
I would love to see something like Proton but for .apks instead of Windows executables. If it were as easy to install and run android apps on a mobile Linux OS as it is now to install and play Windows games on Linux, we would be in a great place to see a proper Linux phone.
GNU/Linux is not aimed at people who want the most features. It’s made for people who value freedom above everything else.
I would love to see something like Proton but for .apks instead of Windows executables. If it were as easy to install and run android apps on a mobile Linux OS as it is now to install and play Windows games on Linux, we would be in a great place to see a proper Linux phone.
You mean Waydroid? I’ve read that it works pretty well.
Depends, waydroid emulates a whole android system, whereas wine translates system calls.
You are right. But it seems to be just as easy to use.
We need proton for Android apps
We have Waydroid which is close enough. It needs some quality of life improvements for better integration with the native Linux ecosystem but it runs Android apps just fine on Linux phones.
I appreciate the people who daily drive pinephones. They are paving the way for when they’ll be viable alternatives for the masses. (Or verifying that they won’t be, we’ll see.)
Don’t forget all the developers working on the kernel, camera support, modem firmware, desktop environments like Phosh and others, distro devs like Mobian or postmarketOS and others, app devs who work on supporting mobile and many other developers and contributors. Even bloggers who report on updates.
Meanwhile me absolutely running a dualboot Oneplus 6 with lineage and droidian that has had kupferos, mobian and postmarketos in the past… (yes, i distrohop my phone, so what?)
I’ve been daily driving Ubuntu Touch on the Fairphone 4 for over a year. I love it, even if some features are lacking. Calling and text is stable, but unfortunately Volte support is still missing. Waydroid is also working great.
I was downvoted before for suggesting the Pinetab is not a viable Android or iPad replacement. That thing doesn’t even have a working wifi driver yet, you have to plug in a dongle just to connect to wifi. I’d love to have good smart devices running Linux one day, but we’re not there yet.
I think you are talking about the recent Pinetab 2 and it seems that the situation has changed: https://www.reddit.com/r/PINE64official/comments/1akjlwu/tutorial_wifi_and_bluetooth_on_pinetab_2/?rdt=46684
The goal of GNU/Linux has never been convenience, but freedom.
Good to know that there is now a testing branch for a wifi driver. That wasn’t the case when I wrote the original comment I was talking about. Still, this took almost a year of selling a tablet with no working wifi. There is inconvenience and then there is a product just being in an unfinished, effectively unusable state. I don’t really see how having no wifi driver is “freedom”. The freedom to code my own driver? I guess, but that doesn’t make for an actually usable device.
Still many people bought the thing, because they wanted the freedom of GNU/Linux. They were willing to sacrifice something to get it. Sometimes that’s what you have to do. Pine64 makes the hardware and does not contribute to the software development. That sucks, but there is nothing we can do about it, since they don’t have a lot of competition.
The thing about convenience vs freedom is that, why can’t we get freedom if we choose convenience as well? I don’t feel like messing around with my phone to setup the basics, and the closest thing freedom-wise would be a de-googled rooted android phone. It would be nice to have an inbetween.
It’s just that freedom sometimes requires sacrifices. Switching to GNU/Linux is also not easy. It requires that a person learns to use a completely new operating system (schools usually only teach Windows). This is hard even for many technical people and it requires time. Windows users can also say that GNU/Linux is just not ready yet or that it’s too inconvenient (and some of them do). But if we don’t fight for freedom, we will never get it. Through hard work of many people over decades, we managed to get freedom on the desktop. Now it’s time for phones. After that becomes easier, there might be some other, new challenge. Maybe firmware or something else. But it will probably always be inconvenient in some way, because you will have to switch from something you already know to something else that is new, even if it has similar features. Just like Reddit users could switch to Lemmy, but they won’t. So they will not have freedom and Reddit continues to have power over them.
It would be nice to have an inbetween
I guess maybe Ubuntu Touch would be something in between. It uses Android kernel, so some Android phones support it.
I don’t know if PinePhone would work for you, but you can check my short review and my other comment for some information.
Everyone saying Android is completely missing the point. I mean yeah, it runs the linux kernel, but i feel like most of yall wouldn’t call ChromeOS linux on the other hand.
The obvious connotations are privacy, choice, wayland/x11 support, a useful terminal, a rich foss ecosystem, and arch btw.
I’d agree with you in the context of standard (google) android.
One caveat that I’d like to highlight, though, is that for me GrapheneOS and F-Droid handily achieve the privacy and rich FOSS ecosystem parts. Useful terminal depends on your definition :) but for my use case Termux fills the void.
It doesn’t feel like Linux (you can’t even use Wifi and Ethernet at the same time for crying out loud) but for a relatively cheap low-power device, I like the flexibility.
It’s far enough from being a foot gun that I can give a Pixel 5 with GrapheneOS and some F-Droid apps to my grandmother and know she’ll have no problems. Balancing that with having enough extensibility to scratch the itch for 99% of tinkerers is a feat to appreciate in my view.
ChromeOS is Linux and even starting to become it’s own full blown distro.
ChromeOS even uses Wayland now.
Lacros
Daily drivin Manjaro (Plasma mobile) on my Pinephone Pro for over a year now. If you are not into the whole “taking pictures all the time” thing you can easiy use it as a daily driver. (This message was typed on it)
I respond to you just because yours is the last of the “I daily drive a PinePhone” comments, but this is meant for everyone with the same opinion.
Do you, in all honesty, feel comfortable enough with your device that you would confidently run a business solely through it?
I’m not an influencer, so my job isn’t “taking pictures all the time”, but still I wouldn’t rely on a Linux phone to run my business because I cannot risk:- to miss a phone call, a text or an email;
- to run out of battery if I’m outside my office all day long;
- to have a faulty GPS should I use a navigator to meet a client;
- that Bluetooth disconnects mid-call for the 5th time in a day while I’m driving;
- that I have to take a picture to collect information and the latest update borked the camera.
All of these things happen frequently on a Linux phone, and if you have a job where you can live through it good for you, I envy you TBH.
On the other hand, keep in mind that it’s not just the “Instagram people” that need a reliable device.I couldn’t run a business on any phone, frankly. That’s what computers are for.
Also the GPS worked fine for me.
Let me guess, Manjaro or another unstable distro is where things broke for you? Mobian did not break things on update, much like Debian on desktop. I know the person you replied to uses Manjaro, but if you want a stable experience you really shouldn’t.
And most people aren’t running a business, so there’s that.
I don’t deny that the user experience isn’t great, it is development/early adopter hardware, but it’s definitely usable as a daily driver.
It depends by what job you have: a plumber, for example, could probably run their business entirely with their phone.
But we’re missing the point, I’m not saying a smartphone can replace a PC, whether it be Linux, iOS or Android. I’m saying that If you need to do all the tasks that are required by a “modern day job” and you need to do them well, then I’m sorry (I really am) but Linux phones aren’t ready yet.And most people aren’t running a business, so there’s that.
Most people don’t have the skill to troubleshoot a Linux phone, why don’t we count them too in the statistics?
Then, I used “running a business” as just an example to indicate the “urgency of a functioning phone” for whatever reason: it might just be that you have a relative you have to take care of, or that you are a doctor/nurse that can be contacted on every moment, or that you’re an a job hunt and cannot miss the call… I can go on for hours on why in A.D. 2024 a person from whichever social context cannot afford to be off the gridMost people don’t have the skill to troubleshoot a Linux phone, why don’t we count them too in the statistics?
This community is called linuxmemes. You are talking to GNU/Linux users here. For everyone else it’s going to be hard, obviously. It takes time to learn to use a completely different operating system.
That’s what separate work phones are for :/
it’s a fun toy, not super useful but probably fun to tinker with
I’ve done some ungodly stuff to my android phones (even non-rooted ones, I’m totally abusing them) and I can’t even imagine all the possibilities with a proper linux distro. Having a pocket pc with a full arm64 linux sounds awesomeI daily drive it, just like some other people here. It lets you run the same software that you use on desktop. Some apps don’t have a UI that works well on mobile (possible workaround: play around with scaling) and some old ones might not have touch support (you would have to use those with mouse or keyboard), but often there are mobile friendly alternatives, so it’s better to use those instead. It can’t replace a proper PC, even if you plug it into a monitor and it’s not a fast device, but it’s usable and you can do fun stuff with it. You can run CLI programs and servers, run Kali Linux (NetHunter Pro), distro hop, make hardware addons (there are some exposed pins on the back) or simply use it as phone. You just have to be an advanced GNU/Linux user, because sometimes workarounds are required.
And when you add the keyboard addon, you can look like a true hackerman:
Okay look I get what we’re trying to say here but would it be problematic if I pointed out that Android is also running Linux?
See, this is why, yet again, Stallman was right: insisting on “GNU/Linux” is necessary in order to disambiguate between the fully-Free Software OS and bastardized half-proprietary stuff like Android.
Isn’t that like claiming all Linux, Android and MacOS are just UNIX?
GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU’s Not Unix!”,[6][12] chosen because GNU’s design is Unix-like, but differs from Unix by being free software and containing no Unix code.[6][13][14] Stallman chose the name by using various plays on words, including the song The Gnu.[4]: 45:30
It’s a valid point, but unfortunately your non bullshit options are limited to replacing the OS with something like Graphene or Lineage.
The powers that be REALLY want your data.
Between October 2018 to April 2023 I used as my daily drivers a series of phones (OnePlus One, Meizu Pro 5, Volla Phone, Xiaomi Redmi Note 9 Pro) all flashed to running Ubuntu Touch. During this time UT (Ubuntu Touch) was less developed than it is now, in that Waydroid (which allows using some Android apps over a Lineage OS container that boots on top of UT) did not yet exist, and Libertine (which allows some Linux desktop apps built for Ubuntu arm64 deb to be installed) was not as functional. And yet is still worked great for my modest needs (e.g. I don’t do banking, or any kind of more advanced gaming, on my phones).
The reason I reverted last year to de-googled Android (“vanilla” Bliss ROM on a Xiaomi Redmi Note 10 Pro) is that being in the USA, the carriers here have closed or are closing down all their 3G/2G networks, and requiring VoLTE for phone calls. While UT supports LTE for mobile data without a problem, given that VoLTE is a proprietary closed protocol with implementation varying between carrier, oem and device, the only device which UT currently has VoLTE support for (and which is still shaky) is the PinePhone Pro.
Anyhoo - the UT dev community is pretty small, but definitely dedicated, and still offers some promise into the future for a nice privacy respecting alternative OS for mobile devices and tablets. Hopefully at some point VoLTE, and a few other issues gets figured out for it so I can return to using it for my daily driver - in the meantime I’ve got it on a OnePlus 5t as a secondary device, and on a Lenovo x306f 10" tablet.
the only device which Ubuntu Touch currently has VoLTE support for (and which is still shaky) is the PinePhone Pro.
I’m incredulous that this is the case. You’re probably right but there’s no way in hell I’m using a phone restricted to 2g or 3g.
I am talking about VoLTE (Voice over LTE) which is the protocol just for making phone calls over 4g networks - NOT 4g/LTE mobile data! Ubuntu Touch has worked well with 4g/LTE mobile data for 10 years now.
The loss of Dalton Durst from that team from burnout was a big hit. They’ve been doing work on it but I haven’t seen anything approaching the output they had when he was heading it up.
Dalton is an amazing and very cool guy, and when he left it was indeed a big hit to dev speed at first, but recently a few super smart and dedicated guys have been able to do a big jump in updating the base from 16.04 to 20.04 (which involved moving from upstart to systemd) and they are getting close to rebasing to 24.04 (target for this is this June in fact). Plus Waydroid support has gotten really good in the time since Dalton moved on, and snap support is getting worked on now as well.
Android is Linux.
Modified Linux kernel, but you very well know what people mean don’t you
I think when people say “Linux phone” they mean GNU/Linux.
No. Most people mean PostmarketOS, which is Busybox/musl/Linux
A lot of people use Manjaro and Mobian (mobile Debian).
Sure, but PMOS is by far the most complete and “daily-ready” mobile mainline Linux distro out there. In fact I’m pretty sure both Mobian and MoA use the PMOS kernels…
I haven’t used postmarketOS, but I don’t see why it would be any better than Mobian or Manjaro (Manjaro might not be the most stable though). Maybe you are talking about Android phones, in which case you are probably right - other distros might not support those so well. postmarketOS and other distros don’t use mainline Linux, so I don’t know why you would call them that, though. For me this is the biggest flaw of GNU/Linux phones.
I know that postmarketOS developers contribute a lot in different areas, but so do Mobian developers. I think the kernel we use was initially developed by Megi.
No? PMOS isn’t the only thing people refer to by “Linux phone”, often its something like Ubuntu touch, which absolutely is GNU.
Fair but Ubuntu Touch is not mainline Linux. It’s a hack to get a GNU/systemd Userland working with an Android kernel (which arguably is also a huge feat)
Mobile Linux is awesome, support it. Maybe just don’t try to make money selling it as a finished product yet?
I don’t think anybody is saying that. It’s a product for GNU/Linux experts who either like to tinker or whose main goal is to have freedom even at the cost of convenience.
Who’s gonna tell him Android is based on Linux ?
Android is Linux, they literally use the Linux kernel. They replace most other stuff, but Linux it is.
They even work towards mainline kernel support, making updates easier for longer times.
Android is a good example, why “Linux” is not a good term for “Desktop Gnu+Linux”.
Nobody because everybody knows this. Android is still not what people mean when they say linux
Uhhh it definitely is. I literally have a Linux terminal running on my Android phone.
No you’re using Termux with bash. Unless you’re actually interfacing with the kernel directly in which case ignore me and carry on.
Anyways this is a great example of why “Linux” as the name of the OS is stupid. GNU/Linux is better (for GNU-based, obviously, don’t go wheeling out the Alpine copypasta because I’m not talking about that).
Alpine Linux is actually a great example of why you are right. Because when people say Linux to describe the OS, they almost always mean GNU/Linux (Linux Mint, Arch Linux, etc). But then there is Alpine, which also calls itself Linux, but its developers actually mean something very different, because it’s not GNU/Linux. So that only makes things even more confusing. Android doesn’t even use the mainline Linux kernel, so calling it Linux is probably even worse than with Alpine.
If we always used the correct names, there wouldn’t be so much confusion.
You’ve missed the point I’m afraid.
While people know that Android is based on Linux, a fact that isn’t in question, when people say a “Linux” phone, they’re not discounting that Android exists or that it runs Linux, they mean to infer that they’re discussing non-Android Linux phones. If they meant Android as a Linux phone, they would have said Android.
While android is in the set of “Linux”, not all things that are in the set of Linux are Android.
Since we have a specific word for GNU/Linux - Android devices, but almost all Linux based alternatives to Android for mobile devices is basically referred to simply as a “Linux phone”, it can be, and should be, assumed that the speaker is referring to Linux phones which are not Android.
It’s a nuance of language and technically not wrong to say that “Android is Linux” but that’s not what most of the readers understood to be the speakers intention.
That was the correction that the previous poster tried to portray.
Simply put, most Linux enthusiasts and community, doesn’t really consider android to be “one of them” since, though it’s Linux at its core/kernel, almost everything built on top of it from there is some bastardized/closed source software, or relies on something closed source. Most of the things people want to run on their phone (browsers, camera software, even the dialer), is almost entirely written, controlled and closed source by Google. While some of the “guts” of the OS might be open source/GNU versions, the interfaces are largely all closed source software that Google has published to run on top of Android specifically. This doesn’t fit with the philosophy of GNU/Linux, and therefore Android is largely not included when speaking about Linux, at least for Linux enthusiasts.
I hope its stable enough when i stop using my current phone
Here is a recent blog post about someone’s experience with PinePhone Pro: https://zerwuerfnis.org/daily-driving-the-pinephone-pro
I have the original PinePhone and it seems to have less issues, but it’s also slower and has a crappy camera.
Looks like for me I will have to wait for WhatsApp to be cross-app, and the phone call audio quality will be an issue.
There seems to be some progress with the call audio issue, so it might get fixed soon. As for WhatsApp you can probably run that with Waydroid (but eventually you should switch to some free software messenger).
My bad I have not phrased my sentence properly, I am already using signal and with hopes that WhatsApp allows ppl to send messages to another WhatsApp number from my preferred app here signal then I can communicate with my friends and colleagues
Is Facebook planning to do that?
That’s what one of sources that I read has mentioned about it
That’s very interesting.
