The number one concern with a NAS is the power draw. I can’t think of many systems that run under 30W.
Why would I throw it away, when I can give it to someone who needs it more, or sell it? Using it as a NAS will use up more power than just buying a mini PC and using that. I calculated the costs and the energy savings would pay for one in two years. My NUC uses 6-7W idle.
I’d use an old PC as a NAS but turned it on only on demand, when it was needed. Which does hurt its convenience factor a little.
Note: talking about desktops.Mime didn’t, but it is from 2006. I think it is messed up.
Big shout out to Windows 11 and their TPM bullshit.
Was thinking that my wee “Raspberry PI home server” was starting to feel the load a bit too much, and wanted a bit of an upgrade. Local business was throwing out some cute little mini PCs since they couldn’t run Win11. Slap in a spare 16 GB memory module and a much better SSD that I had lying about, and it runs Arch (btw) like an absolute beast. Runs Forgejo, Postgres, DHCP, torrent and file server, active mobile phone backup etc. while sipping 4W of power. Perfect; much better fit than an old desktop keeping the house warm.
Have to think that if you’ve been given a work desktop machine with a ten-year old laptop CPU and 4GB of RAM to run Win10 on, then you’re probably not the most valued person at the company. Ran Ubuntu / GNOME just fine when I checked it at its original specs, tho. Shocking, the amount of e-waste that Microsoft is creating.
Question, what’s the benefit of running a separate DHCP server?
I run openwrt, and the built in server seems fine? Why add complexity?
I’m sure there’s a good reason I’m just curious.
The router provided with our internet contract doesn’t allow you to run your own firmware, so we don’t have anything so flexible as what OpenWRT would provide.
Short answer; in order to Pi-hole all of the advertising servers that we’d be connecting to otherwise. Our mobile phones don’t normally allow us to choose a DNS server, but they will use the network-provided one, so it sorts things out for the whole house in one go.
Long, UK answer: because our internet is being messed with by the government at the moment, and I’d prefer to be confident that the DNS look-ups we receive haven’t been altered. That doesn’t fix everything - it’s a VPN job - but little steps.
The DHCP server provided with the router is so very slow in comparison to running our own locally, as well. Websites we use often are cached, but connecting to something new takes several seconds. Nothing as infuriating as slow internet.
Oh you mean DNS server, yes ok that makes sense. Yeah I totally understand running your own.
If I understand correctly, DHCP servers just assign local IPs on initial connection, and configure other stuff like pointing devices to the right DNS server, gateway, etc
So on mine, I haven’t bothered to change from the ISP provided router, which is mostly adequate for my needs, except I need to do some DNS shenigans, and so I take over DHCP to specify my DNS server which is beyond the customization provided by the ISP router.
Frankly been thinking of an upgrade because they don’t do NAT loopback and while I currently workaround with different DNS results for local queries, it’s a bit wonky to do that and I’m starting to get WiFi 7 devices and could use an excuse to upgrade to something more in my control.
That makes sense. I haven’t used an ISP configured router in over a decade. At my parents house, their modem/router combo didn’t support bridge mode so I put it in a DMZ and slapped that to the WAN port on my router. Worked well.
True for notebooks. (For years my home NAS was an old Asus EEE PC)
Desktops, on the other hand, tend to consume a lot more power (how bad it is, depends on the generation) - they’re simply not designed to be a quiet device sitting on a corner continuously running a low CPU power demanding task: stuff designed for a lot more demanding tasks will have things like much bigger power sources which are less efficient at low power demand (when something is design to put out 400W, wasting 5 or 10W is no big deal, when it’s designed to put out 15W, wasting 5 or 10W would make it horribly inefficient).
Meanwhile the typical NAS out there is running an ARM processor (which are known for their low power consumption) or at worse a low powered Intel processor such as the N100.
Mind you, the idea of running you own NAS software is great (one can do way more with that than with a proprietary NAS, since its far more flexible) as long as you put it in the right hardware for the job.
I have used laptops like this and I find that eventually the cooling system fails, probably because they aren’t meant to run all the time like a server would be. various brands including Dell and Lenovo and MSI and Apple. maybe it’s the dust in my house. I don’t know
How does a notebook—outside of including a DAS—provide meaningful storage volume?
I’ve got a Lenovo sitting by the TV, quietly running Jellyfin along with ESde. Might not run Win11 but it works fine for what I use it for.
Laptops are better, because they have an integrated uninterruptible power supply, but worse because most can’t fit two hard drives internally. Less of a problem, now that most have USB3. Just run external RAID if you have to.
Arguably, a serious home server will need a UPS anyway to keep the modem and router online, but a UPS for just the NAS is still better than no UPS at all. Also, only a small UPS is needed for the modem and router. A full desktop UPS is much larger.
House battery, it’s like a UPS for your entire house! I want one.
They make m.2 to SATA adapters that have like 10 SATA ports. A laptop motherboard in a case with one of those would be very interesting. I have plans for one but I need to buy some parts (keyboard and laptop fan).
Edit: the adapters run hot and are kind of fragile. I’d recommend having a thermal pad under it thermally coupling it to the motherboard and giving it some support.
NAS, no. Server for my random docker containers or whatever project I’m screwing around with, yes.
Nah. I dissagree. My dedicated NAS system consumes around 40W idling and is very small sized machine. My old PC would utilize 100W idling and is ATX-sized case. Of course I can use my old PC as a NAS, but these two are different category devices.
I bought a used Coffee Lake era Xeon 2224G workstation with 32GB of ECC RAM to use as a NAS. It uses 15 Watts at the wall measured with a killawatt while streaming 4K with Plex.
I want to reduce wasteful power consumption.
But I also desire ECC for stability and data corruption avoidance, and hardware redundancy for failures (Which have actually happened!!)
Begrudgingly I’m using dell rack mount servers. For the most part they work really well, stupid easy to service, unified remote management, lotssss of room for memory, thick PCIe lane counts, stupid cheap 2nd hand RAM, and stable.
But they waste ~100 watts of power per device though… That stuff ads up, even if we have incredibly cheap power.
I use my old pc server as a 50w continuous heater in my lab-shed which is a small stone outbuilding. Keeps it dry in there!
This is likely also true when you start serving stuff and need transcoding etc.
Why do I need transcoding, if I may ask? My TV always plays the served file directly. 🤷♂️ Is there anything to gain by transcoding, especially on the local home network?
Storage space, ensuring quality settings, supporting more device than “your tv”, smaller bandwidth requirements.
Gotcha. I guess I have no need then. 👌
I have an old machine been using as a Unraid server for years. It’s an i7-3770 paired with 32GB of ram and like 4x2TB drives.
Finally upgrading it because it’s just not going to keep meeting needs and frankly it’s wicked old (might keep it as a gitlab runner server or something). Finally “upgrading” by taking some old hardware (and bought some new), to have a full compute + storage setup. Proxmox (Ryzen 9 5900XT + 128GB ram) with all the compute and TruNas (Ryzen 7 3700X + 64GB ram + 8x16TB drives [LSI LOGIC SAS9211-8I] [raidz2/82.62 TiB usable]) for storage with a private 10G direct link between the two (Intel X550T2BLK).
It also takes space and makes lots of noise. But for sure, with couple upgrades, it will work like a charm.
If your PC has 32gb of RAM or more throw it away (in my trash bin) immediately.
I got an old server and it has a hardware raid card on it. I installed trueNAS on it. Shows 18tb raid right away (24tb 4tbx6). And it does not help that I’m new to this stuff.
Is hardware raid any good for truNAS? should I just get a pcie to sata and connect drives individually?
or
When I looked into this I found that, for TrueNAS, using ZFS with RAW disks is generally preferable.
I wound up writing custom firmware to my hardware RAID card so that it would be effectively “transparent” and yield direct hardware access to the disks.
TrueNAS is better when it sees raw disks and not HW raid. There are still useful parts in TrueNAS if you have a HW raid volume like file sharing, synchronization, apps (docker), etc. But the true power lies in zfs which needs raw disks.
So, it’s better if I get a normal pcie to sata card and connect them individually. Then just raid them through software.
Also, what are your thoughts on second hand drives, and just monitoring them and replacing them as needed. (im currently saving up for good new 4tb x 6 drives lol)
With TrueNAS yes, a sata card connected to a bare drive is the preferred way. I have done it differently with enterprise hardware and virtualization but it’s not really supposed to be done that way. And ZFS is not technically “RAID” in the classic sense, but it does implement its own RAID‑like redundancy (RAIDZ and mirrors) as part of an integrated filesystem and volume manager. There are also things you can do with faster NVME drives like SLOG, L2ARC, and SPECIAL vdevs to store pool metadata. But some of these can fail and wipe out all your data if you aren’t careful. So read a lot.
Second hand drives are fine in my opinion as long as SMART is not reporting any immediate errors. Just assume you will have failures and have spares built into the zfs volume.
I’m not an expert by any stretch but I have been doing this for 10 plus years so I have some experience.
Interesting, thanks. If you no expert, the I’m a newbie lol.
I will try a sata card and raiding them through software. What would you recommend for 6x4tb ? I know there are raids and mirrors, I was thinking like raid 5 but still unsure. I also have a icydock for 2.5 in drives that I can raid separately with ssds when I have the funds.
What is your experience with raids and safest bet on old hardware, if running 24/7 with important data?
OK. Science time. Somewhat arbitrary values used, the point is there is a amortization calculation, you’ll need to calculate your own with accurate input values.
A PC drawing 100W 24/7 uses 877 kWh@0.15 $131.49 per year.
A NAS drawing 25W 24/7 uses 219 kWh@0.15 $32.87 per year
So, in this hypothetical case you “save” about $100/year on power costs running the NAS.
Assuming a capacity equivalent NAS might cost $1200 then you’re better off using the PC you have rather than buying a NAS for 12 years.
This ignores that the heat generated by the devices is desirable in winter so the higher heat output option has additional utility.
I used to think it didn’t matter how electricity is used to generate heat, so I came to the same conclusion you did. Surprisingly, it does matter. Rather than a computer’s resistive heating, it is much more efficient to refrigerate the outdoors and point the refrigerator’s heat sink indoors. This is how a heat pump works. It’s basically awesome.
This ignores that the heat generated by the devices is desirable in winter so the higher heat output option has additional utility.
But the heat is a negative in the summer. So local climate might tip the scales one way or the other.
Assuming a capacity equivalent NAS might cost $1200
Either you already have drives and could use them in a new NAS or you would have to buy them regardless and shouldn’t include them in the NAS price.
8 drives could go into most computers I think. Even 6 drive NAS can be quite expensive.
That’s not a NAS, that’s a whole-ass PC, though with only 8gb RAM. And way overpriced for the spec.
I bought a two bay Synology for $270, and a 20TB hdd for $260. I did this for multiple reasons. The HDD was on sale so I bought it and kept buying things. Also I couldn’t be buggered to learn everything necessary to set up a homemade NAS. Also also i didn’t have an old PC. My current PC is a Ship of Theseus that I originally bought in 2006.
You’re not wrong about an equivalent NAS to my current pc specs/capacity being more expensive. And yes i did spend $500+ on my NAS And yet I also saved several days worth of study, research, and trial and error by not building my own.
That being said, reducing e-waste by converting old PCs into Jellyfin/Plex streaming machines, NAS devices, or personal servers is a really good idea
In the UK the calculus is quite different, as it’s £0.25/kWh or over double the cost.
Also, an empty Synology 4-bay NAS can be gotten for like £200 second hand. Good enough if you only need file hosting. Mine draws about 10W compared to an old Optiplex that draws around 60W.
With that math using the NAS saves you 1.25 pence per hour. Therefore the NAS pays for itself in around about 2 years.
In the fall/winter in northern areas it’s free! (Money that would already be spent on heating).
Summer is a negative though, as air conditioning needs to keep up. But the additional cost is ~1/3rd the heat output for most ACs (100w of heat require < 30w of refrigeration losses to move)
my gaming pc runs at like 50w idle and only draws a ton of power if its being used for something. It would be more accurate to consider a PC to be 1.75x more power than a NAS but then account for the cost of buying a NAS. I’d say NAS would probably take 2-4 years to pay off depending on regional power prices.
… 100W? Isn’t that like a rally bygone era? CPUs of the past decade can idle at next to nothing (like, there isn’t much difference between an idling i7/i9 and a Pentium from the same era/family).
Or are we taking about arm? (Sry, I don’t know much about them.)
All devices on the computer consume power.
The CPU being the largest in this context. Older processors usually don’t have as aggressive throttling as modern ones for low power scenarios.
Similarly, the “power per watt” of newer processors is incredibly high in comparison, meaning they can operate at much lower power levels while running the same workload.
I think we need to qualify “idling”, my NAS runs bittorrent with thousands of torrents, so it’s never really “idle”, it just isn’t always doing intensive processing such as transcoding.
I got a Kill-A-Watt similar device. I have measured my old PC at around 110W. PC specs: i5-6600, 16gb DDR4 ram, 1060 3gb, 1x2TB hdd, 1x250gb sata ssd, 1x1tb m2 ssd.
