• Null User Object@programming.dev
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    7 months ago

    Please don’t perpetuate this myth. He was tried, and found guilty, for falsifying business records to cover up payments that he made for purposes that many of his voters would find objectionable in order to hide that objectionable information from those voters to prevent them from making an informed decision and affecting an election.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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      7 months ago

      It’s really no different than saying Clinton got impeached for a blowjob.

      He wasn’t, it was perjury. Though I’d say that election interference is a bit more severe than lying about a beej.

    • istanbullu@lemmy.ml
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      7 months ago

      Bush Jr should have been convicted for mass murder. Obama should have been convicted for drone strikes.

      • Zink@programming.dev
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        7 months ago

        I’m not disagreeing with you, but at least those awful actions are plausibly covered as a presidential act made in the country’s interests. I’m not saying they were good for the US, just that they could argue that was the process.

        Trump’s shit is all self-serving and against the interests of the United States.

        • istanbullu@lemmy.ml
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          7 months ago

          presidential act made in the country’s interests.

          If your country’s interests require committing mass murder (like Bush Jr or Obama did), then your country is an awful evil place.

          • Zink@programming.dev
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            7 months ago

            I cannot disagree with you there!

            That’s mostly what I meant by this sentence:

            I’m not saying they were good for the US, just that they could argue that was the process.

            Even if they make the worst, most destructive decisions that most of their constituents disagree with, it’s still a presidential act. I assume they can’t be charged in the US. Might be different in an international court, but I think we refuse to recognize their authority or something, because U-S-A! U-S-A!

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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          7 months ago

          Mhhh yes lying about WMDs in Iraq to bomb the entire country to rubble and steal their oil. That’s a lot worse than bribing a porn star

          • Zink@programming.dev
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            7 months ago

            I’m sure it goes without saying, but legal wrongs and moral wrongs are very different things, like in this case.

            The argument would be “I’m immune because it’s a presidential act” and not “I did the right thing.” Kind of like how cops get away with horrible shit because of qualified immunity.

          • irreticent@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            You know that’s not what he was tried for and convicted of. You’re just arguing in bad faith.

        • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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          7 months ago

          All ex American presidents in jail for war crimes?

          Don’t threaten us with a good time

      • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I agree, but apparently presidents are immune from prosecution for anything done in office. I really hope that can get overturned, but it’s the current state of the law.

      • TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Trump and Clinton raped women. Probably not the only presidents.

        Edit: I’m not talking about Lewinsky. See my comment below.

    • fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Linkerbaan is a shill. Look at their posts. The terrorists in the Kremlin pay them to get Trump elected.

      • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        Only a terminally online liberal could look at someone criticizing a justice system that serves the rich rather than the protection of basic human rights (especifically saying that Trump has worse things to get convicted for) and think: “Hmm, yes, this is a Russian shill, lest I even take into consideration that they might actually have a good point”.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      That’s a very long way of saying “Hush money to a porn star”.

      Its not even as though Trump didn’t commit additional financial crimes while in office. He took money from the Saudis for state secrets. He traded insider information to his son-in-law for fundraising money. He staffed his departments with hedge fund insiders as a quid pro quo for personal financial favors. And that’s before we get to the illegal use of military force or the illegal direction of federal money for his pet border projects or the illegal arrest and unconstitutional prosecution of migrants and dissidents or the J6 shit.

      91 fucking indictments. One trial. For the hooker hush money.

      Say what you will about kickbacks to Stormy Daniels, but its the least lethal policy on the Trump docket. And that’s a real window into the soul of America. Rounding up and incarcerating people without trial is fine. Bombing foreigners is fine. Marching a high-on-their-own-supply fascist mob through Congress is fine. Just don’t get caught slipping your mistress a tenner to keep her mouth shut during an election season.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        This trial isn’t about those things, and most of the US hates those events, so keep on preaching to the choir.

    • aleph@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Technically, it’s for a combination of election fraud and falsifying business records.

      But “paying hush money to a porn star” is definitely a sexier headline.

      • evidences@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Aside from the sexier headline saying 2024 Trump business fraud trial doesn’t narrow it down enough to know which case someone is talking about.

        • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I’ve already mixed them up in my comments to great embarrassment. I just can’t keep up with all of this felon’s crimes.

  • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    It is NOT for pushing money to a porn star. It is for marking the hush money as legal fees. That’s ALL it is. They didn’t even get him on the moral high ground, but nitpicked his books.

    This country is so beyond fucked… Cannot even get basic details correct…

    • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      But the elevation to a felony is the important part. It’s a felony because it’s part of a conspiracy to illegally defraud the voters and affect the election.

      It’s a crime in furtherance of a more serious crime, which elevates its severity.

      • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        and it should be elevated clear to jail time at minimum, but it won’t, because this country not only has no idea what justice is, but also has no idea how to literally defend itself from “threats within”.

    • Shelbyeileen@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Al Capone was only able to be arrested for tax fraud, because it was very hard to prove he and not one of his lackeys. I think this akin to that

      • OccamsRazer@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Exactly. They really really wanted to get him, and this was the only thing they could get to stick.

    • masquenox@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Cannot even get basic details correct

      The rich being above the law is the correct “basic details” of liberal nation states.

        • masquenox@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          When a system is working as designed it is working correctly, is it not?

          If this system isn’t working for you (which means I guess you are not rich), then you need a different system, don’t you?

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            No, no it is not. What are the goals of an economy or government? To collapse in repeated cycles? No? Then it is, in fact, NOT presently working as designed.

              • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                That’s exactly my point. To pretend the government or economy is supposed to be some unstable mess is missing the entire purpose of it in the first place, let alone understanding any balance…

                Defending the rich and powerful as above the law is equivalent to defending death as the purpose of life.

                • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
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                  7 months ago

                  They’re not defending the rich and powerful as above the law, they’re analyzing the way the law is written and applied, and the way it’s been written and applied since the country’s founding.

                  The whiskey rebellion was triggered when George Washington taxed independent whiskey producers, while his and his buddy’s large distilleries were largely exempt.

                  The law is written to protect the oppressing class and bind the oppressed class.

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Only a moron fails to understand the current economy is NOT functioning “correctly”.

            Is an economy an ever-present thing that works well or poorly depending on many factors? Or something created?

            If you say created, you are beyond fucking stupid.

              • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                There are no infinities in the real world. Only boundaries where something becomes a guarantee. Horizons that you cannot grasp. Unfortunately for you, those horizons seem to stop at … movie references.

                Congratulations.

      • LeadersAtWork@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Man, fuck you. Go open a damn book. Calling you out on your bullshit, this isn’t cool.

        I grew up Native. I know the stories. I’ve seen a people trying to hold onto a culture all but totally denied to them. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about and should be ashamed of yourself for not taking the tiny ass effort to do a quick search before spouting nonsense. I’m all for freedom of speech but like damn man, reattach your spinal cord to your brain before you speak next time, cause clearly something came undone.

  • Phoenixz@lemmy.ca
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    7 months ago

    Actually, no.

    It’s for committing fraud while trying to hide these payments. It’s tangentially related, sure, but it’s not the reason why he was convicted.

    Funnily enough though, I’d say this sounds like prostitution. Pay a girl after sex? If I do that I can go to jail, they should go for Donald Trump for that one.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Judge Meachum is explicitly on record saying he doesn’t want to put Trump in prison.

      Even past that, “we got Capone on tax evasion” is a more oblique way of saying “the local and state governments were too corrupt to successfully prosecute Capone, so we needed a federal department to get involved”.

      I would say the Capone case is ALSO a classic example of the deep flaws in the American justice system. Its just more focused on how wealthy crooks can manipulate local prosecutions.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          On Trump’s tenth instance of contempt he said that he didn’t want Trump to go to prison. I suspect the judge will issue the maximum fine allowed and no jail time.

          • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I assume he meant jail for contempt, not no jail at all.

            Though jailing trump will 100% put the judge’s life in danger.

            • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              and he is a coward that will put his own life above justice. Some farce of a “judge” he is when justice does not rule him… This country is beyond pathetic.

              • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                These are financial crimes and Trump is facing a max of 4 years, and jail time isn’t even certain even if it wasn’t trump.

                • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Don’t worry, the judges on the more severe cases will also chicken out.

                  IMO, he should see jail time for the significance of the consequences of the crime. Are the institutions that make the country sacred or not? If so, tampering with and harming them should always go for the max penalty.

                  Fixing books? Don’t really care that much. Tampering with elections in an effort to become a despot? He SHOULD be hanging…

          • HighElfMage@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Jailing someone in the middle of a trial is a hugely disruptive delay. But now the trial is over, and the judge gets to count all ten counts of contempt (so far!) against Trump during sentencing. Trump has also been doing everything that a repentant defendant should not be doing, so even though it’s his first offense, he might get some actual jail time. Not the max, but maybe a few months. Especially if he violates the gag order and goes after the judge of his family again. Or the jurors.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              even though it’s his first offense, he might get some actual jail time

              I will give 2:1 odds up to $1000 that he gets no jail time.

  • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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    7 months ago

    He’s also got 2 other criminal trials being held up by SCOTUS and Judge Cannon, which includes charges of Insurrection, so there is that to think about.

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        If he loses the election I’m sure they’ll go forward.

        If he wins they’ll make it all go away.

      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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        7 months ago

        Half of red ties in congress dislike Trump and it probably won’t take much of his appointee’s bullshit to start impeaching the judges from Cannon to SCOTUS.

  • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago

    Really? Was your truth social account broken so you transitioned to Lemmy to try to minimize this historic event? The obvious difference was the tangible personal responsibility here. Not to divorce responsibility for all the other stuff, but I’m confident even you realize how complex it was to convict your precious Trump for things he personally did with a trail of direct evidence. Putting one person in jail for things like war crimes is a whole different level of grey and frankly there aren’t readily available systems built to deal consequences for this things like there are for personal fraud.

    • ryven@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      There not being systems built to deal with the big crimes is exactly what the post is complaining about, I think.

  • yrmp@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I can never tell if these memes are astroturfing by monied interests/russian bots pretending to be progressives, if populism leads to the same brainwashed takes as the right, or if progressives are actually this dumb.

    I consider myself a socialist and a progressive, and I understand that this was a case of defrauding electors and why the case was a felony. It’s not “paying hush money to a porn star”.

    I can’t imagine someone on the right saying this in earnest, as they’d never care about Native Americans or any minority. Only thing I can think is that it’s the right trying to sow discord on the left by feigning moral outrage, or the populist progressives on the left being unable to understand how the world works at all. I honestly can’t tell who is making these brain dead memes.

    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      It is BadEmpanada, who I mostly know from his videos debunking PragerU. He is a non-American who routinely criticizes America though, which gives people a cause to demonize him thoroughly.

      Though I think most recently I saw him clowning on Vaush for outing himself as a pedophile that is also into bestiality, which seems to have riled up the kind of people still holding onto Vaush as an example of ideal internet politics.

      So overall it seems like he has a decent trajectory calling out grifters.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 months ago

      Instead of judging everything by whether it is a Russian bot consider if there is any merit to the argument instead.

      Also this guy lives in Argentina.

      • yrmp@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’m not saying the argument doesn’t have merit. I’m saying that this case wasn’t about “paying hush money to a porn star”. I really don’t care who he is if he can’t be nuanced. The world is not black and white. Bad Empanada is guilty of a straw man here and the result is that people who generally agree with the argument can’t tell if this is for or against Trump. Read a certain way it minimizes what Trump did. “Oh those other presidents did war crimes but THIS? This itty bitty little fraud is what gets a former president indicted?”

  • Damage@feddit.it
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    7 months ago

    So, for an European who hasn’t been following this: criminal conviction does not bar him from running for president?

    • ThirdWorldOrder@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      The U.S. Constitution sets out three eligibility requirements for the presidency:

      1. The person must be a natural-born citizen of the United States

      2. At least 35 years old

      3. A resident of the United States for at least 14 years.

      There are no restrictions regarding criminal records.

      • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de
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        7 months ago

        which is actually good, because otherwise they could convict you for the pettiest shit or simply invent a law to convict you over, thus barring you from presidency when you haven’t done anything that people dislike.

        the problem now is that there’s a large group of people who don’t consider “being convicted of fraud” as a reason to stop voting for trump, and in fact will mos likely NEVER find any reason to stop voting for him or whoever the republicans put forward.

      • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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        7 months ago

        As a convicted felon and resident of Florida, though…he shouldn’t be allowed to vote. How could you rub for an office you can’t vote for?

          • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
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            7 months ago

            I don’t disagree, but thems the ropes.

            Wouldn’t it be fucking great if he tries to go and vote live on OAN or some shit, and some smug poll worker gets to tell him he can’t vote because he’s a convicted felon.

            Oh man. That’d be better than winning the lottery.

        • Drusas@kbin.run
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          7 months ago

          Florida follows the voter laws of the state the felony was tried in. New York allows felons to vote.

      • i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        “But why isn’t there a restriction on criminal convictions for being president?”

        A: before now, nobody thought we needed to explicitly write them.

        We live in insane times.

        • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          No, the real answer is if criminal convictions barred you from office, it could be used as a political tool by corrupt politicians to prevent their opponents from running.

        • HighElfMage@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          It’s also a safeguard against the reigning power using bogus prosecutions against their opposition, like we see in many authoritarian states.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 months ago

      No it’s mostly a giant theater that so far has had zero actual impact on the election. But it makes some cultists feel like the justice system is still intact and definitely proscecutes billionaires.

      Trump will get off with some BS excuse like they always do at the end of it.

      • Drusas@kbin.run
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        7 months ago

        This verdict has done the opposite of your claim: make the cultists feel like the justice system is political and not working because they don’t like the verdict.

    • davidagain@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The laws weren’t really designed to hold leaders to account. It’s just that Trump is more of a lying, workshy, petulant criminal than he is an effective leader.

      • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org
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        7 months ago

        Also, those other things were mostly the fallout of military actions performed as part of the job, rather than assorted felonies while a private citizen.

  • FrankFrankson@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    The only reason why it’s not for Jan 6th, selling top secret documents to other countries or election interference in Georgia is because Trump is surrounded by corrupt fucks that are running interference for him.

  • masquenox@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I geniunely dislike BadEmpanada - definitely a star of the creepier parts of leftube - but when he’s right he’s right.

    • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldOP
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      7 months ago

      What did he do wrong? From what I’ve seen of him his takes are usually pretty based but so ascended from neoliberalim that without much knowledge of geopolitical context it can be difficult to follow

      • masquenox@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Don’t get me wrong… BE had some really good takes back when I was watching them - but their “holier than thou” attitude turned me off. I stopped watching them after they made the “All US military personel are murderers” claim - which is just such a Hollywood-leftist take I couldn’t believe it.

          • masquenox@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Look - this whole pretend-hostility towards military veterans you are demonstrating? It was never a “left” thing - it was invented by right-wing propagandists after the Vietnam War, okay?

            So please stop with the Hollywood-leftism - you’re not helping anyone.

              • masquenox@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Your edgelord pretend-leftism is as unimpressive here as it is everywhere else.

                • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  I keep forgetting that to be a real leftist you need to glorify murderers who are the arms of imperialism. Maybe my “the gangs of pillagers and rapists bulldozing the global south aren’t nice” worldview is too utopic.

  • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Its not even for paying her. Its for paying her to nok speak. People are ok with him paying for whatever sexual fantasy or lust he may have had. But not ok with him paging her to not tell

    • Dr. Bob@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      It’s not for either of those things. It’s for cooking the books to hide the transaction. Falsifying financial records is the crime. And it would be a misdemeanor except that it was done to further a conspiracy to defraud the public which makes it a felony. It’s not a crime to drive, but it is if it’s a getaway car.

      • cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        so it wouldn’t have been a crime if he had just paid her to not tell, in order to protect his presidential candidacy? The actual crime was that he tried to hide that he had paid her not to tell?

        • Dr. Bob@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          He committed a criminal act to hide the source of the funds. He could have just paid her out of pocket and not told anyone. No crime then.