So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.
For example I would say:
“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.
Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.
So what are some better options?
Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.
The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.
Cunts
instance name checks out
We can close this thread now. The question has been answered.
Found the Australian
They wish they could be our western island.
In New Zealand of all places!
Kiwis call each other cunts almost as much as aussies. We insult each other just as much, but we have better taste.
In Australia the gender-neutral term is ‘Cunt’.
I thought it was mate
I stand corrected.
y’all
Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.
I agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.
It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.
Vosotros agrees.
Or in German: euch
I’m under the impression that you pronounce it the same way this cat looks.
I still wonder why English (a Germanic language) doesn’t have its own pronoun for the plural 2nd person like German (euch) or Dutch (jullie), I think it kinda helps with distinction between talking to one person and talking to multiple people.
The problem is… what pronoun should we choose? I think “yinz” would sound kinda cool, but nobody outside of a very specific spot in the US actually uses it (other than myself I guess).
you’uns
Youse if you’re a Geordie.
further down under you may hear “hey, yous lot…”
yinz
I say y’all. It’s inclusive.
For me it’s just “all”.
“Foolish mortals” is my go-to gender neutral form of address
Fellow bipedal meat-things.
“What is up, my mammals?”
Are assuming my genus?
Cheese bags.
Comrade.
☭
Our tovarich
The simplest approach is to accept language is inherently gendered, and at a certain point it is exhausting to either take offense to everything or walk on eggshells.
I’m southern, so I use y’all almost exclusively lol
Did you just assume my language?
I’m more of a “be the change you wish to see” kinda person. I’ll neutralize my language to encourage others to do the same, eroding the banks of the river of language in the direction I wish it to go.
I mean buddy is already gender neutral.
So is “guys” as far as I’m concerned.
Try the following for groups:
Hey folks, how’s it going?
Listen up assholes!
Greetings, gumshoes
I say “greetings earthling(s)” but I also like gumshoe! Also definitely adding “listen up assholes” to the rotation, my coworkers appreciate your suggestions!
“Mate” is always a good option, I wish it’s used more universally in the States, too.
A wise man once said, “I’m a dude, he’s a dudes, she’s a dude. We’re all dudes. Hey!”
Out of the mouth of babes… 🥰
I believe that sentiment was also uttered by another wise man. A man of his time. Mr. Jeffrey Lebowski.
Strange though, that when you ask most men how many dudes they’ve slept with suddenly, she’s not a dude…
There’s a very big difference between “dude”, referring to someone you’re talking to, and “a dude”, referring to someone you were talking about.
Not to me there isn’t…
It’s like the difference between “my shit”, “your shit”, and “that shit”. You’re not actually referring to your own things as feces, or calling it “shitty”. It’s just your shit. As in “Don’t touch my shit”. But when you’re referring to someone else’s shit as “your shit” or “that shit” it’s more derogatory. Like, “clean up that shit” or “get your shit out of here”.
The context changes “shit” from derogatory to neutral. Similarly, “dude” can be both gender specific and neutral depending on context.
Note that people are still allowed to prefer not to be referred to as “dude”, but it’s a gender neutral term in many contexts nonetheless.
That’s just how our language works. You can also use the word “fuck” in many ways that have wildly different meanings.
It’s funny how “just how it works out” always leads to “neutral” words having double meanings that equal “man” but never “woman”
Maybe it’s not “just how it works” and maybe it’s just bias…
You’re literally arguing that this word should specifically exclude women, while complaining that double meanings never include women. It makes no sense. Why wouldn’t you want to take power over the word to make it apply to women too?
There is no world where “Check out that dude” will mean a woman.
It will always be “neutral” or masculine.
And that’s not neutral.
I have zero interest in fake neutrality
That’s because context matters.
“You’re shit” and “You’re the shit” mean completely different things
Of course. No one literally thinks that “dude” always means man.
The issue isn’t the obvious truth of the different meanings. The issue is that those different meanings aren’t neutral like they claim to be, because they rely on the idea of men being the “default” state of people.
There’s a reason there isn’t exactly a large number of words in use that can men “woman” and “everybody” and that’s because most men would be uncomfortable with that.
Yet somehow, the opposite is fine?
As a former resident of San Diego I have no problem sleeping with dudes. Because everyone is dude.
People think they’re clever when they ask “would you sleep with the dude?” My response is " bold of you to assume that I haven’t." Everyone is dude. You can try to twist things as much as you like but dude normalization reigns supreme.
I was talking about the default assumptions people make when they hear the word. Your circumstances don’t come in to it, unless your claim is that most people share your experiences
In San Diego the default assumption of “dude” is that it can be literally anyone or any thing.
The people there accepted this decades ago. It’s not one person’s experience. It’s a shared experience of millions. It’s a geographically specific situation with the Smurf language phenomenon. Any noun can be Smurf and everyone there understands the smurfing meaning when it’s smurfing said.
Ive generally always agreed with the former comment, but I’ve heard this argument a few times and it does demonstrate the disconnect well. I’ve switched it up to a simple y’all.
Yep. Something that can only ever mean “neutral” or “man” isn’t neutral
Guys is probably the most neutral of the ones you mentioned.
