After New York City’s race for mayor catapulted Zohran Mamdani from state assembly member into one of the world’s most prominent progressive voices, intense debate swirled over the ideas at the heart of his campaign.
His critics and opponents painted pledges such as free bus service, universal child care and rent freezes as unworkable, unrealistic and exorbitantly expensive.
But some have hit back, highlighting the quirk of geography that underpins some of this view. “He promised things that Europeans take for granted, but Americans are told are impossible,” said Dutch environmentalist and former government advisor Alexander Verbeek in the wake of Tuesday’s election.
Verbeek backed this with a comment he had overheard in an Oslo café, in which Mamdani was described as an American politician who “finally” sounded normal.
There’s absolutely nothing radical about Mamdani.
All of his proposed policies are favored by the vast majority of Americans and normal in actually developed nations.
Exactly. The real radical ones are like the US who don’t give their own people affordable health care of all things.
Yes, it’s called Social Democracy and the countries that apply it always have the highest standards of life.
Don’t let the billionaires bullshit you.
Shout out to everyone who said his lofty impossible ideas are never going to happen in reality.
Somehow every country can do the impossible goals of “maybe the rich don’t own every store” and “let’s make it so people are paid better” but America, but somehow they’re the impossibility, never the one county that refuses to try it.
Can confirm.
By the way my country has an actual Communist Party with some representatives in government (not enough for anything really).And FYI EU politicians are learning from the US: the EU, either at top level or at countries’ governments, is veering right as of late, towards the same fascism we now see in the US.
So perhaps we shouldn’t be so smug, not right now at least.Your countries (I mean France at least) will burn themselves to the ground before they let that happen. Something I wish the Americans would do. I don’t want to be caught in a house fire, but if Temu Hitler is at my door setting it and my options are limited I’d drag him into the flames with me without a second thought.
Fascism is extremely well-funded and these assholes band together just look at the bailout of Argentina.
Are EU politicians really learning from the US? Or are they just paid off pawns? Probably a mix of both, but I think it’s safe to assume that the majority is caused by American meddling, until confirmed to be otherwise.
Oligarch meddling, they don’t see flags (and neither should we).
They’re all puppets and traitors.
They are veering right because of the blatant Russian propaganda that is trying to break up NATO and the EU by trying to make everyone more xenophobic.
Too bad for them EU countries have a much more robust political system that cuts out extremist views most of the time. We don’t have a “winner takes all” system. And plenty of political parties, even right-wing ones, want nothing to do with the fascists.
I’m hopeful, but I wouldn’t let my guard down.
Far-right parties are winning in Europe because the European Central Bank forces countries to adopt ‘austerity’ policies. These policies destroy jobs and reduce people’s quality of life. So people vote for whoever promises to fix this - either the left or the far-right. But the ECB can’t permit an anti-austerity government, so they crack down on the left. The far-right is tolerated as long as it only targets random Syrian refugees.
Russia is bad but blaming everything on russia is ridiculous. Xenophobia is growing everywhere with or without russian influence
It’s the other way around. It’s NATO propaganda that led us to the war with Russia.
The actual European policies the US is in dire need of importing, not the Orbán and Putin-style dismantling of secular democracies.
COMMUNIST EUROPE
As a European I’d see his policies as left wing but not as socialist, communist or whatever. And as a person who has been to New York countless times I would see anything that improves the quality of life such as public transport, childcare, food poverty as a generally good thing. Whether Mandani manages to pull it off and doesn’t go to the dark side like every single other New York mayor remains to be seen.
His policies are fundamentally socialist and I’m not sure if it’s possible to classify them as anything else. That said, you don’t necessarily need to be a socialist to support them.
From a unitedstatesian:
Genuinely, thank you, European politicians and public figures, for pointing out that reasonably socialized public services are considered de rigueur by the vast majority of the rest of the developed world.
It felt so weird when Tim Walz was lauded as a “gift to progressives” when he was running on a platform of “kids deserve food”.
I live in Colorado where we just passed a resolution to pay for school lunches by a small tax on individuals making $300,000 or more.
I swear to God, there were a ton of people complaining about it. My favorite was a Facebook friend of my brother who posted “Why are we allowing people to vote on this who don’t make more than $300,000 a year if it doesn’t affect them? That’s not how democracy works.”
These people are fucking insane.
if it doesn’t affect them
I wonder how the kids receiving school lunches would have voted and if that bloke would have liked the result. Do we have any clue how the vote was split among parents of school kids?
You suppose this guy thinks men shouldn’t be able to vote on women’s health issues? I bet he doesn’t see even the slightest conflict there.
Hypocrisy is not a bug, it’s a feature.
But I wasn’t asking about a reasonable perspective, just wondering out loud how a literal interpretation of his stance would turn out.
Did you point out TABOR does require a vote for all new taxes, to include ones that don’t affect everyone?
No, since it was my brother’s friend, I just told my brother that dude was a moron - and left it at that.
Is he going to skip off to Galt’s Gulch now? 🤣
The gift being that he was old and white with a proven political track record.
Politics isn’t just about policy, you have to appeal to enough voters to get elected if you want to implement those policies. Unfortunately, right now in the US, “kids deserve food” is a wild progressive idea.
Not just the developed world as quite a lot of developing nations strive to offer these services as well.
Which is even more insane.
But at the same time, 40 or so of our states have been essentially un-developing for the last couple decades. The US is essentially a dozen first-world countries supporting a few dozen third-world countries, and the latter constantly politically attack the former. Really would be nice if those of us who live in the actually productive regions could just cut bait on the regressive states and let them find out the hard way.
and we do it without wanting a revolution or supporting terrorists
it’s magic
Yes. Thank you.
The fact that even r/democrats has banned posts about Mamdani is shocking to me. (I found out from Bluesky, went to Reddit and checked and it’s true)
This dude is normal. Full stop.
EDIT: And yea, I was literally thinking these days “It’s nice to see Europe influencing the US for a change”
The fact that even r/democrats has banned posts about Mamdani is shocking to me.
I don’t see why it’s shocking. That sub is basically an enforced echo chamber for the netanyahu wing of the party.
What why haha
Because Reddit is run by billionaires like any other enshittified format.
Head over there and promote a platform of free speech where Mamdami can be discussed. Like… this one?
Talking about Lemmy will also get you banned there. It’s best to treat Reddit like the plague house it is and stay far away.
I’ve done it on a few subs, so it probably depends on the mods. Haven’t been banned yet.
Nobody can hear you over the bots
I don’t really know, to be honest. The mods there never gave off a bad vibe before. I don’t know what’s gotten into them.
All of the original mods got kicked during the subreddit strikes. They are all replaced by stooges.
“It’s nice to see Europe influencing the US for a change”
They’re even putting roundabouts in South Carolina cities!
How is he European influence?
Americans live in a world where their “left” is already pretty far right. Someone who isn’t that right but more centre / mildly left I indeed consider normal. It’s still kilometers (miles) away from far left.
It is time for the Americans to wake up and strike for all the freedoms and benefits that we have enjoyed here in Europe for 50 years
They won’t.
TSA didn’t show up to work in Houston, people are starting to protest how they can. If they’re not getting paid anyway…
Edit: here’s the video: https://nitter.net/Suzierizzo1/status/1985813704277991745#m
That’s great! But unless they say “we are never coming back unless…,” The rich people can hold out.
Why are you being so negative about the pushes forward Americans are doing?
The young Bernie made it to mayor in fucking NYC. There was so much money against him there, he still won.
People get complacent. They will think this one voting season means a blue trend. They are so far from wrong it’s just… you gotta laugh. We are on the cusp of martial law… if this isn’t your primary political concern, then I dunno how to help you.
The ‘enemy’ the Americans face today is much more comparable to the ‘enemy’ the Europeans faced until the 19th century and before. The power of rich families and (large corporations) diminished in Europe in the 20th century, making the push for a better lifestyle a lot easier. Slaves and peasant weren’t complacent of themselves, they were made powerless by the system they were born in. If you look at history, the more powerful the US became on the world stage the more civil rights were established in less powerfull but equally developed nations. It’s no coincidence that since the second world war the Europeans increasingly got better healthcare, education, pensions etc while the American progression on civil liberties slowly came to a pause. It’s a complicated story, but complacency is a luxury only the well off can afford. A lot of those that are not fighting the system are busy getting by and trying to get to the end of the month.
Afraid or lazy ?, why not ?
67% living paycheck to paycheck, will be broke and dead missing work.
Theres no social safety net to fall on during protests/strike but they would have to do mass strikes/protests to get those safety nets. Hell the poor excuse of social safety nets Americans do have disappear if the government just decides to shut down.
Keeping healthcare coupled to employment will forever be the chains on the US working class. Food, child care, many social services can be absorbed through community solidarity but healthcare costs are unbreakable.
It’s almost as if that is the plan
Unions here pay you for going on strike. It’s part of why you pay to be in a union, so they can leverage it this way.
You can translate this page for more information. It’s a very nice summary of how strikes in my country are legally arranged (totally believe any American reading this 's eyes will pop out and jaw drop to break the floor)
That’s what unions are for.
Same like here in Belgium 100 years ago
“They took some much from us that they took out our fear”
This was the situation in the late 19th century for the workers in Sweden. They somehow managed?
Mostly fear, driven by stupidity. Socialism is indistinguishable from Communism and on par with Nazism in some parts of the US. There’s also the myth of American exceptionalism, that we can succeed where others have failed because 'Merica.
The interesting thing is that the myth of American exceptionalism works both ways - both that we can succeed when we use strategies that have failed elsewhere, and also that we’re so unique and different that we’ll fail if we try strategies that are proven successful elsewhere. Both convincing people that we should do the opposite of what’s been shown to solve problems elsewhere.
What I feel more fascinating is how, at least it seems to me, the exceptionalism often stays with Americans even if they do realise how shitty the country is becoming. You can see it either in comments suggesting the USA is worse that any third world country (“we’re the best at being the worst!”) or, especially with tankies, where since capitalism isn’t working in the USA and USA is the best at capitalism so obviously it can’t work anywhere else and the Russian model is the way to go.
It’s just how it looks to me as an outsider, but I can’t shake the feeling that the idea of American exceptionalism is too deeply entrenched even in people who hate the country.
Someone i know on fb literally just posted that they are glad snap ended so people have to work hard like him.
Everyone commented he was an absolute idiot. So that was good.
So yes, its American individualism at work. Fuck everyone. I got mine (especially if they have kids, then theyre 1000x more selfish, as is natural).
Wish I could move.
We can succeed where others fail in all things except taking care of each other.
On par with nazism would be a good thing for MAGA wouldn’t it?
Too many believe they’re not Nazis at all because LALALALALALALALA! 😖
Little bit of column A, little bit of column B.
Well indoctrinated to enshitification.
The problem with fighting is that there is a chance you will lose something. United States citizens still have it pretty good compared to most of the world. Yes, that’s falling fast, but I think it will take a generation or two for that to really sink in. So, it’s not bad enough to take chances just yet. (Lazy)
Also, there is quite a bit of corruption on every level, and most US citizens with any amount of power are more than willing to throw their neighbor under a bus if it will benefit themselves. This means that, should any sort of strike happen, there will be plenty of scabs and shitty rich people to squash that. (Fear)
Also, over the past many decades, public opinion has been manipulated into thinking that supporting the company is better than supporting your comrade. Quite a number of people think unions are a bad thing. And while they’re certainly can be bad unions, that does not make the concept bad. (ignorance)
For example, The huge amount of work and public support to required to entirely dismantle an industry like Health Insurance is unfathomably large. It would mean work loss for millions who won’t have skills outside that industry. The transition to socialized healthcare would undoubtedly be rocky at best—and people will die. And trillions of dollars would be “lost.” The rich would never allow it, they would sink the whole ship before caving to the people.
I’m all for it. Strike until 100% socialism. But people with kids? They are not so bloodthirsty.
A century ago, the church and the landlords were supreme, child mortality and child labor were commonplace here. The socialist trade union has broken the power of the church over the state. This has only been achieved through many and long-lasting strikes. Now we are the land of beer, chocolate and fries
Church took back its power while we were watching TV. Back to square one.
Stand up and start again 🧨
And don’t sit down next time ffs lol
50? You got these rights in the 1970s?
Yes,
“Europeans recognize his vision about free public transit and universal childcare. We expect our governments to make these kinds of services accessible to all of us,” said Verbeek. “We pay higher taxes and get civilized societies in return. The debate here isn’t whether to have these programs, but how to improve them.”
Yes.
Honestly I love taxes. I don’t love that billionaires don’t pay enough taxes and the unequal tax burden across different social groups but I love taxes and I love the idea of taxes. My dream would be a society where I work for basically pocket money and everything else - quality staple food and fresh food, education, healthcare, adequate housing, transportation, communication, childcare - is provided to me.
Honestly, one of my biggest conspiracy theories is that US employers (which are almost universally rich conservatives) use pre-tax income specifically to garner hate for taxes. Because conservatives always want to lower taxes on the rich, so they try to poison the average person’s view on them to sway public opinion. Whenever Americans discuss their income, it is always referencing the pre-tax amount. For instance, if an American says they’re making $50k per year, they’re probably only taking home ~$42k. So they tend to see taxes as an extreme burden, because they’re always looking at their pre-tax amount when they think about their income.
The American tax code is also intentionally kept extremely confusing, to further stoke hatred for taxes. Taxes could be an automatic “hey, here’s how much you owe, and how we calculated it. Let us know if you have any deductions we missed, and we’ll amend it for you” letter from the IRS. But instead, Americans are forced to calculate their own taxes, (even though the IRS already knows how much they owe), which means every American is annually reminded of how much income they’re “losing” to taxes every year.
In contrast, the rest of the fucking world uses post-tax income, because that’s how much money you can actually plan to take home. The taxes are a consideration, but if a job advertises €50k, it means the employee is taking home €50k. The taxes are more of a given, and are handled on the backend where the employee doesn’t need to worry about it. They apply for a job that makes €50k, and they know that’s how much they’ll take home. The taxes are already calculated for them, so they don’t need to worry about it.
Same for things like sales tax. If you see an item on the shelf for $1.00, it’ll actually ring up as $1.08 (or higher, if their state also has a sales tax) at the register. So Americans are constantly reminded of how much they’re spending in taxes, because every single purchase they make is noticeably taxed and hits their bottom line. Whereas Europe just lists the post-tax amount. So Europeans don’t need to worry about sales tax, because it is already factored into the cost of the item. If they see something on the shelf for €1.00, it will only cost €1.00…
If you see an item on the shelf for $1.00, it’ll actually ring up as $1.08 (or higher, if their state also has a sales tax) at the register.
I just wanted to clarify to everyone not familiar with it that most places in the US have a combination of state and local sales taxes, but no federal sales tax.
Still, adding semi-random taxes on top of the signed price is something that strikes me as surreal as a European. We have sales taxes, too, but it is always included in the advertized price.
Absolutely! It’s always a drag, especially on high-priced items, to be hit with a big amount in taxes when you check out. I’m sure that this was pushed by the anti-tax crowd in the US to keep how much people are paying in taxes front and center.
Semi-Random?
Differing from town to town, state to state.
How is that random, people know how their town and state VATs
the rest of the fucking world uses post-tax income, because that’s how much money you can actually plan to take home. The taxes are a consideration, but if a job advertises €50k, it means the employee is taking home €50k.
Looks around confused in German
It’s an interesting overall take still! But I am wondering now how income is handled in other European countries, I actually don’t know.
I think you’re missing something here; in the UK we also talk about pre-tax income.
It’s important in lots of ways, for example you choose how much to pay into your pension, and you get tax relief on that.
If you just talk about post-tax income you would miss the enormous difference between someone who is on £54,350 and pays the minimum 8% into a pension (£50k taxable) and someone on £62,500 who pays 20% into a pension (£50k taxable). The second person is a lot better off overall, because they have saved £12,500 in their pension and the first person has saved £4,350, which compounds pretty quickly.
Yeah, taxing the rich is basically the only way to make a society work at all. Nothing else works.
You can try to just print money to pay for social programs (in other words, what the state/government is doing when it goes into debt), but that’s only a patchwork solution and not a long-term solution, because eventually if you print too much money you cause hyperinflation. So, taxing the rich is the only meaningful way to run a society long-term.
Honestly I love taxes.
Yes, thank you! I agree taxes allow us to have nicer things than we could afford individually. The problem is how our tax money is spent, on things like those fucking private/public ventures where the municipality builds the stadium, and some jackoff gets billions from it
You put Mamdani, Bernie, or AOC virtually anywhere in Europe, and they’re slightly left leaning moderates.
not in Poland, Hungary, Turkey and few others
Perhaps on social issues, but economically it is true for the most part
I thought Italy went hard right wing a couple of years back?
Yes, the Italy is included in the “few others”.
“Here, taking care of one another through public programs isn’t radical socialism. It’s Tuesday.”
For you, the day free buses graced your village was the most important day in your life, but for me? It was Tuesday.
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