see also
I cannot for the life of me understand how someone could willingly boars one of those monstrosities
My emotional support boar
⠀⠀⠘⡀⠀⠀HOG RIDAAAAAA⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡜⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠑⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⡔⠁⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠢⢄⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣀⠴⠊⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⠀⠀⠀⢀⣀⣀⣀⣀⣀⡀⠤⠄⠒⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⣀⠄⠊⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠉⢈⠩⢙⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⢋⠠⠀⠀⠨⠐⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⢐⠐⠌⡌⢄⢐⢈⠔⡝⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⠉⡀⠐⡀⢁⠈⠐⠱⠑⡑⠈⢹⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢗⠀⠀⠐⡠⡛⠔⡁⢜⡔⡬⢎⢸⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⠡⠀⠀⠀⠀⠂⠁⠀⠄⢂⠈⠂⢂⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⡿⢟⠩⠐⡀⠀⠀⠀⠐⠐⠁⠓⠒⠒⢀⠁⢐⢝⢟⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⠫⠡⠡⠨⢀⠂⠠⠀⠀⢁⠑⡱⠛⠗⡓⢂⠠⢸⢸⢨⠣⡝⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⢏⢐⢁⠊⢌⠐⡈⠄⠠⠀⠀⠀⠀⠁⠑⠈⠀⢄⢕⠸⡨⠪⡪⡘⣻⣿⡿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⢂⠂⡂⠅⡂⠅⡐⠨⢐⠐⠠⠠⡀⢄⠠⡠⡡⡱⡐⠕⢌⢊⢆⢣⢒⠽⢿⣿⣿⣿ ⠣⢂⠂⠄⠡⠐⠐⠈⠌⡐⠨⡈⠢⠨⡂⢌⢂⠆⡪⠨⡊⠂⡂⠢⢡⣢⣣⡣⣍⢿⣿ ⠨⢂⢂⠁⡀⠀⠀⠁⠐⠈⠐⠈⢈⠈⠐⡀⠄⠁⠌⠈⠔⣄⡀⠠⡑⡂⠆⠢⢂⠑⠽ ⡨⠐⠀⠀⠀⢠⡎⡀⠀⠀⠄⠈⡀⠌⠐⠠⠈⠄⡁⠂⡀⡫⠑⣑⠀⢂⠌⠄⢕⠀⠨ ⠺⡪⠢⡀⠀⠞⢇⢂⠀⠂⡀⠠⠀⠄⠁⠌⠨⠀⢄⠢⡁⢂⢿⡟⡀⠀⠈⠈⡀⠂⣰ ⢀⢀⠀⠄⠀⠀⡐⠀⡈⠄⡐⠅⡊⠌⢌⠄⡕⡑⡁⢂⠂⢂⠸⣿⡄⠀⠈⣠⣴⣿⣿ ⢐⠔⠠⠀⠀⡐⠠⢈⠢⢑⠄⠑⢈⠊⡂⡱⢁⣂⢌⢔⢌⢄⠀⠹⢀⣺⡿⣟⢿⣿⣿ ⢀⠡⠁⠂⠐⠠⠈⠄⢈⠠⢈⢢⡣⣗⠕⠄⣕⢮⣞⣞⣗⣯⢯⡷⡴⣹⡪⣷⣿⣿⣿ ⠊⠄⠠⠠⠡⠈⠠⢐⠠⡊⡎⣗⢭⢐⠹⡹⣮⡳⡵⣳⣻⢾⣻⣽⣻⣺⣺⣽⣿⣿⣿ ⣨⣾⢐⠰⠐⠅⡂⡂⢕⢜⢜⢵⢹⢑⢔⠨⢘⠸⡹⡵⣯⣻⢽⣳⣻⣺⢞⡿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⡔⠠⢈⠐⠐⢠⢱⢸⢸⢸⢸⠰⡡⢘⢔⢕⠝⢮⣳⢽⢝⡾⡵⡯⣏⠯⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣗⢅⢢⠠⠡⠢⡱⡑⡕⡕⢅⠣⡊⢨⢪⡣⡣⡂⡬⡳⢽⢽⢽⢽⣞⣧⠙⣿⣿ ⡻⣿⡯⡪⠢⡡⠡⢑⢌⠪⡪⡊⠆⢌⠪⢐⢕⢱⢱⢱⢱⢱⢙⢮⡫⡟⣞⢮⣳⠙⣿ ⠊⣿⣯⠪⡊⠄⢅⠂⢂⠁⢇⢇⢃⠂⢕⠐⠌⡲⡰⡡⣇⠇⢇⢕⠪⠉⠂⠅⠂⡑⠹ ⣸⢿⣳⢱⠨⡐⡽⡿⡶⡾⡬⡢⢂⠅⡢⢡⣌⠐⠈⢎⢎⢎⢔⠠⠡⠠⠠⠡⡁⡂⠡ ⡯⡯⡇⢅⠕⠠⢱⢹⡙⢮⢹⠨⡂⡂⢇⠌⠮⡳⠅⡂⢕⠡⡑⠠⢁⢁⣡⣡⣢⣶⣿ ⣗⢽⢌⡢⡡⡡⡸⡢⡣⡣⡱⡑⠔⡈⢎⢆⢂⠂⠅⣢⡳⣽⡐⢅⢂⣊⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣯⢯⢷⢽⢮⢯⣺⣪⢞⡮⣳⢘⠔⢌⢜⣞⣖⣮⣻⢮⣯⢷⣿⣻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣾⣷⣿⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿
Wtf why are you commenting in braille?
Spaces makes foolls of us all.
How are they supposed to read that if they’re blind, smh
With their fingers. Why do you think we invented touch screens.
Because computers were horny
oh my god first ever recorded event of ASCII art in lemmy
Letters, punctuation, and spaces are just about the only ASCII in that art.
Is this Loss?
A masterpiece!
clash royale startup sound
Apart from the terrible environmental effects, they’re a blast. I’m not in for slides and shit, but the full experience is generally really enjoyable. If you like to travel, it’s also a good way to trial destinations before committing to a long vacation somewhere.
Trial what destinations exactly? Arrive at Island port. Hecklers everywhere. Arrive at next Island. More hecklers. Rinse and repeat.
“Damn, I had a blast!”
I’m telling you, a Euro-trip on rail will net you more adventure and better pacing with vastly more interesting destination. Possibly even comfort, if you take sleeper trains.
I’m hoping they’ll ban these cruise ships from the Mediterranean altogether.
What you explained is what I’d expect someone who’s never been on a cruise before to describe a cruise. Sure, there’s hecklers at the port immediately off the boat. Walk out of that area and it goes away, like every tourist destination.
Most cruise stops that I’ve been on have been around 8 hours, which is ample time to experience a bit of a location. I have only been on two cruises, so I’m by no means a seasoned traveler.
Unfortunately, the Caribbean doesn’t have a rail system between the islands, so boating is the main option. While most cruises aren’t luxury, and to get a suite is $$$, they are comfortable rides, almost assuredly more comfortable than a train, barring rough seas, which I’ve experienced once, and it wasn’t that bad. They are slower than trains, but they have a dozen floors, 100 bars, pools, live entertainment, and a plethora of other things. I have enjoyed some of my at seas days more than some stops. Finally, vastly more interesting destinations is extremely subjective. There are cruises that go all over the world, so the number and choices of destinations is huge.
I’m not going to argue you least point. Like I first mentioned, they’re terrible for the environment. All of my words above are just in response to, “why would anyone get one one of these”, not to defend the existence of cruises.
There are cruises that go all over the world, so the number and choices of destinations is huge.
Sure, but cruises are limited to basically just coastline and port cities, whereas literally any other mode of transportation can get you to all of those places too, plus all the other 90% of land on the planet. Saying “the number and choices of destinations is huge” is technically correct, but basically meaningless when you compare it with all other modes of transportation.
Really the only places cruises can go that other modes maybe can’t is:
- Remote places like the northern coasts of Alaska or Scandinavia
- The middle of the ocean
I can kinda see why someone would take a cruise to the first item, but I can’t bring myself to understand the second. Like, cruising around the empty ocean for days/weeks on end sounds so boring that you’d need “12 floors, 100 bars, live entertainment, and a plethora of other things” to make it even bearable. They created their own problem (finding entertainment in the middle of empty ocean) and solved it in the most brute force, environmentally unsustainable, and legally sketchy way possible.
When you port somewhere, you can rent a vehicle or take a taxi to places not in the port town. If you want to travel to various tropical islands, you can fly or float, it’s not like there are a bunch of transportation options that can take you everywhere.
I’m not saying that rail is a worse option, I’m saying that cruises are fun, and that’s why people go on them, which was the initial question I responded to.
Clearly you’ve never experienced what a cruise is like. You’re coming to these conclusions that just aren’t based on reality. A cruise ship is a small town full of entertainment. If there were no entertainment, yea, floating in the ocean would get boring after a few hours, unless you’re into that kind of thing. They are mobile resorts, and when you wake up, you’re in a new location. They aren’t over crowded, except when everyone is boarding and leaving, but that’s true with literally every form of mass transportation.
Some people take cruises and never leave the boat. They like to relax by the pool, enjoy the spa, partake in on board activities, gamble in the casino, eat all of the included free food or drinks, or whatever.
I’m not defending the environment part, or the legally sketchy stuff, but they’re entertaining.
You’re coming to these conclusions that just aren’t based on reality.
I’m sharing subjective opinions based on my own preferences and lived experiences. Sorry they don’t match up with yours, but we’re having a disagreement about big boats, not a crisis of reality.
Clearly you’ve never experienced what a cruise is like.
Correct, because they don’t interest me, and I’m not convinced enough by the people that like cruises to warrant spending the money on them.
There are thousands of existing “small towns full of entertainment” I’d rather go to than a cruise. I don’t need my resort to be mobile, and if I want to end up in a new location, I’ll book travel to that location. I don’t need to go on a cruise to relax by a pool, or enjoy a spa, or partake in any of the mundane activities offered on board, or gamble in a casino, or eat food and drink drinks. Cruises don’t offer anything unique that I can’t find somewhere else, other than the novelty of being a cruise, and that novelty just doesn’t interest me.
It’s all about the attitude you have going into the trip, my friend. There will be hecklers wherever you go, if you set your mind to look for them.
Including Lemmy.
What is a heckler? Like the people who interrupt stand ups? I went on two cruises with my family when I was a kid. And I can assure you the only stand-up anyone experiences is on the ship in between ports.
I think they’re referring to hawkers, or people on the streets harassing you to buy something. I don’t know why everyone here is calling them hecklers and not confused by that.
And coming from a well off family, why is it wrong for me to buy stuff?
Not saying that is the argument you’re making/defending. Just don’t see a problem with helping people out.
I was just explaining a misunderstanding, that being heckler vs hawker… I think you’ve replied to the wrong comment?
It’s not wrong, but a lot of people hate being harassed until they buy something.
Dunno what you mean with hecklers but you arrive at a part, tour the city, go eat somewhere, you know, spend time in the destination city and then you move on.
You don’t have time though. They typically only stay there for a day.
That’s plenty of time for a quick visit though?
I don’t know. When I go to a city as a tourist, I typically stay for 4 to 7 days before moving elsewhere, so that I at least have a very vague idea of what the place is like. One afternoon isn’t enough time to do anything, you can see a museum and have a coffee, which is nice, but doesn’t tell you much about the place.
I suppose it’s another way to visit, but it’s odd to me.
What is enjoyable about a floating, overcrowded shopping center that makes you seasick?
What’s wrong with floating? The boats are huge. Unless it’s rough seas, you don’t know that you’re on water.
All of the shipping centers are in lower floors dedicated to shopping. Don’t want to buy anything? Just don’t go to floor 7, it’s that easy to avoid. If you get seasick, then maybe cruises aren’t for you, but motion sickness medicine is available for those that do have the ailment. If pulled off the side of a catamaran in Hawaii, which is when I found out that I do get motion sickness. That’s never been an issue in a cruise for me. Again, they are so large, it’s like not being on a boat at all.
All of you arguments stem down to, “why would someone go on a trip that they don’t want to go on?” The answer is, don’t, but there are a ton of reasons that people do. I don’t go to casinos and gamble, because they’re dirty and I don’t like gambling.
Skill issue
I’d be concerned about the tusks, myself
you guys can afford these things?
A week long cruise can be had all in for less than a couple thousand bucks. Not the cheapest vacation, but not the most expensive. One can spend way more depending on the room and any extras spent.
To crowded for me.
Cruises would be pretty interesting if once out at sea they released 30 wild boar.
What about 50 of them? Or perhaps some number between those two numbers, inclusively?
Depends, are the passengers permitted to bring assault-style rifles with high-capacity magazines?
They’d probably drown fairly quickly though. Unless they were Saltwater Boar.
They’re a vacation where everything is taken care of for you. Find a spot, read a book, get all the drinks you want. Need food? Walk over to the chosen food place. Even with thousands of people on board, you can generally find a quiet spot with drinks.
There’s all-inclusive resorts, yes, and I’ve found they’re generally more expensive than cruises. If you make your resort hotel float, it’s cheaper. I don’t know why.
I’d only go anymore if it’s a trip that would show things you generally can’t see other ways, such as the coast of Alaska or Norway, or going through the Panama Canal. Caribbean cruises are an absolute waste.
There’s all-inclusive resorts, yes, and I’ve found they’re generally more expensive than cruises. If you make your resort hotel float, it’s cheaper. I don’t know why.
Because you can get away with following very few regulations if you’re in international waters, and pollute the shit out of the environment. Cruises are horrible, environmentally speaking.
My wife’s family loves cruises. I have made it very clear that I am morally opposed and will not join them on one, but her mom has tried to schedule a cruise as a family vacation anyway at least twice. I think she now finally understands I’m not going to be convinced by being told how much fun they are, after I outright said, “I understand they’re awesome, I’m sure I would love it, but I am not going to support that industry and its practices.”
At one point I honestly think she thought if she just got it scheduled and everyone else was onboard I’d come along. Fortunately she never got that far.
(I promise she’s actually a pretty cool person, I love my mother-in-law very much, but she can be stubborn.)
The polluting the waters they go bit is one of my only concerns to push back against. Depends on the ship but they shouldn’t be actively polluting the water and when they do it is a mistake or the annoyance of lack of laws letting someone be lazy.
Food waste is sterilized and neutralized to be be able to either dump into the ocean if it can or be disposed of later. All trash is sorted and recycled or burned for fuel with scrubbers removing heavy pollutants from the smoke stack.
Quite a few ships actually get unprocessed gas as the processing generates the lubricant they need for the engines and allows for less chemical release at the site of the processing. And is offloaded once spent to chemical handling companies.
They even purify their own water before dumping it using algae and enzymes before uv sterilizing it.
They just mess shit up in ways that are also hard to explain, such as oasis class ships were so large that then traveling to Venice had an issue where the vibrations of the motors were shaking the foundation of the city and causing parts to collapse. Their wake churns algae from water oxygenation and so much more. But they are more or less just a city on the water with all the ups and downs of a regular one with more classism.
There are a lot of things they’re supposed to do that they don’t.
FoE has “report cards” on the major companies and they’re all awful.
It’s more the air that they pollute. The NOx and CO2 emissions are absurd.
In addition to the stuff the other person said, they can also dodge labor laws and pay people substandard wages, providing inadequate health& safety benefits, and get you close to a high-value location without paying for real estate or contributing to the local tax base.
Cruises are bad. Period.
Because they’re fun.
Says someone with no anxiety disorder or awareness of the ecological harm they wreak
You’re right, I don’t have an anxiety disorder. However, I do know the ecological harm they cause. That doesn’t make them not fun. Lots of fun things aren’t good for the environment.
there is absolutely nothing i find appealing about going to a theme park that’s been crammed onto a boat and being surrounded by rich tourists and screaming kids. and of course someone picks up some exotic flu strain on an excursion and now the entire ship is sick.
thanks, but i’ll pass
Not even just exotic. They’re known for being germ vectors, in general.
I’ve been invited on a few cruises.
I was in the navy, and immediately launch into a tirade about how top heavy and unsafe those things are.
“Well it’s never been a problem for us”
Okie dokie, I took statistics, so hard pass all the same :)
I mean the danger of capsizing in a cruise ship is vanishingly tiny, and the Navy has similarly top heavy vessels, like aircraft carriers. They have massive keels, and their displacement is so huge that rough seas mean almost nothing to them. You’re far more likely to die in millions of more common activities than to a cruise ship capsizing. I don’t really see how taking statistics is helping your argument at all, as statistics are on the cruise’s side. Driving or riding in a car is far more dangerous.
Now, cruise ships suck for other reasons, like their exploitation of poor countries and massive carbon emissions. Arguing against cruise ships from a statistical safety standpoint is like arguing against airplanes because they could crash, regardless of how likely. The cruise ship excursions and activities on board are more dangerous than their seaworthiness.
Statistics about top heavy cruise ships being unsafe? I suppose germs, but since you preceded that they are unsafe with being top heavy, I’m guessing you weren’t talking about germs.
Look at those water slides
Last cruise I went on, I was 15. I don’t remember it being very good. Everyone was either shitting themselves about getting norovirus, or shitting themselves because they’d got norovirus. The excursions were boring and obviously done on the cheap, and I was neither old enough to drink, or young enough to fully enjoy the kids club (I will admit I was fucking amazing at dancing to Cotton Eye Joe on Just Dance though). That and there was a 13-year-old that tried to throw herself overboard and had to be dragged from the railings by other teenagers.
The ship was nothing like that though, it was the P&O ship Oriana, which is a little more reserved. It retired in 2019 and is now a cruise ship in China called the the Piano Land.
If you are talking about the shape (wider on the top than on the bottom), it’s not really a problem.
If you are talking about any other thing, you are probably right.
Yeah I mean there’s a laundry list but that didn’t even cross my mind.
It’s not just willingly, people pay an exorbitant amount for the “privilege”…
The OP is “just” reckless overconfidence. This is defiance against god.
… which is the definition of hubris :p
I’m from the city which builds these.
We built the previous largest record ships as well. I drove people to an event when Oasis of the Seas launched, iirc.
This somehow seems much taller from this perspective. Bet it’s the lense a bit, but also, it’s the fact that the ships are so big that driving next to them gives you no sense of their scale. Or height, at least.
Although I know that in comparison to the ferries we actually use, these are humongous.
And even the ferries feel absolutely huge when you’re standing on the top deck and looking down at the sea.
I don’t have like much thalassophobia or the fear of heights, but leaning over a railing on a cruise ship in the middle of the night to gaze at the abyss really does chill a person a little. I just wonder how that would feel at the top of one of those highers decks. Especially in a storm.
How big does a wave have to be for a ship of that size to even notice it as anything other than a weight shift?
I mean I was really concerned about that as well, having been on the ferries which go from Turku to Stockholm. As I said though, they’re kinda tiny in comparison. They’re not like ferries between France and the UK or Ireland and the UK, but like more cruise ships.
Icon of the Seas is like double the length of the cruise ships I’ve been on (Vikin Line Isabella ~160m, Viking Line Grace ~218, Icon of the Seas 360m) but the point I made once was that just a medium storm in the archipelago of Baltic Sea, that boat was going kinda hard side to side. As in the water in the pool splashed out like a third or something and you could not walk straight in the hallways. It was bloody fun though, one of my first proper times of getting drunk.
We didn’t really realise it at the time with my buddy, but the ~50 year old guy buying us 14-15y olds drinks in a sauna was probably a bit of a nonce.
Anyway, my point was that if those ships go that bendy in the Baltic Sea, wtf would this do in the Atlantic? However, some engineer pointed out that 1) it’s gonna be cruising in the Caribbean and 2) the stabilisation tech that’s built in a ship so much larger per tonnage is gonna make it way more stable. Plus it’s way newer so the tech is better as well.
Because if the pool splashed around as much as the medium size jacuzzi we were in with the nonce, then I’d be scared to go to some of those top pools.
I don’t remember the specifics, but I do remember that the guy convinced me.
The stabilization tech in the newer ships is just astounding even if it’s ridiculous. Massive air jets blowing a constant stream of bubbles beneath the ship inorder to lower friction and increase buoyancy is just so neat plus the extending azipods for tight turn radiuses tighter than older smaller ships… Just insane engineering.
If you would like to know what it would take to rock one though I do in fact know. The waves were 9.1m or 30feet high and wind speed at 125mph. Ship listed about 14° at the maximum which was enough to bend door frames in the interior ship, however the ship is actually rated to survive a list of over 45° or waves of 50feet in height.
Anthem of the seas 2016.Also the pools are drained and no one is allowed in during those kinds of events as rocking water can actually cause people to be ejected from the pool and send them flying over the deck.
…that’s not AI generated, is it?
That looks to me like a drawing by the design/architecture team, but there is a real boat like that and it’s a pretty close match for the design. Here’s a video with drone footage from the launch; 1:39 you can see a view kinda similar to the drawing.
Does it have the slides that terminate over the ocean?
The slides look pretty similar to the illustration. I don’t think those are actually slides that end over the edge, they’re slides that have a transparent section where they hang over the edge so you can get a little glimpse of being over the open ocean. Which I guess is an extra kind of thrill? I would pass.
Here’s a screenshot of the video for comparison.
Okay but
can it be fake please
That’s cool as hell and I’d love to get on it tbh.
I get that it looks risky, but I don’t really see a problem here. The platform is in undisturbed water, no waves, no sudden changes. If the platform is strong enough, which it seems to be to me, it will not easily tip over.
I’ve worked on a few lifts like that, and if you manage to tip one over I can only say that you were either really stupid or you were trying to do it. All the weight is at the bottom. They are very stable.
The only way to make them fall over is if your floor is not level while driving. Driving is out of the question in this picture, and as long as both guys stay in the fork lift the center of gravity will not change much.
So the platform will not move, the lift will not move, basically they are fine.
If something was to happen you’re fucked though.
And different solutions are available. I’ve personally been in a different lift that had an arm so the lift would be a the side of the pool and the part where I was standing was elevated above the water. That probably would be a better solution, if you have enough space to get one of those lifts in.
Disagree. The lift is on a gimbal. If the wheels on one side of the lift are 1cm higher than the other, that would move the platform at the top by 8cm or something. If both guys are on one side of the platform that could be enough to make the whole thing tilt by another 1cm at the wheels, and so on.
That lift is not designed to be operated on a plastic barge.
That dock is not designed to carry equipment, certainly not an elevated platform, and is not designed to be operated as a barge.
IDK why there’s so many commenters here rushing to defend this kind of practice. Working at height, on equipment not intended for that application is a hard no. Why would you work for an employer that would put you in that situation? This kind of “it’s probably fine” risk assessment is just absurd.
Well, have you ever stood on a lift like that? I did, on a regular basis. You can lean over quite a bit with them.
Also, the lift itself already has play. You can easily get it to swing 4 centimeters while the base is stationary. It’s just play in bearings and metal slightly bending.
I agree that the lift is not made to be like that. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I’ve done worse, that is for sure. But you have to use your brain.
Clearly the platform has great floating capacity. If the platform would not be capable of carrying that load, it would have sunk by now. The lift is in the middle, who j means the load is putting equal pressure on all sides. That has a stabilizing effect.
Water also pushes back. If you’ve every tried to flip a raft in the pool, you know that it is much easier if you move it side to side a few times, the water wil help you push it over, as long as you keep adding energy at every swing. If you don’t, you will stabilize.
Unless something keeps adding energy to the swing, the swing will only get smaller and smaller. If it’s swinging too much? Just stand still, don’t move and let it stabilize.
The one thing to keep in mind is that the higher you go, the bigger the leverage is. At some point it will probably tip over if you swing it too much, but I don’t think those guys are at that point.
But in the end, this is probably not the proper way to do the work. It’s fun to discuss it, but a professional company would arrange something else.
Still legendary though, I’ve worked for companies that would do sketchy shit sometimes and while dangerous, it was also kind of fun. And I always checked for myself first if it was safe. Because I want to go home at the end of the day. Doesn’t mean you have to be scared of everything though.
Unless something keeps adding energy to the swing, the swing will only get smaller and smaller. If it’s swinging too much? Just stand still, don’t move and let it stabilize.
Guy this just isn’t true. The people on the top are on a gimbal (?) The further they are from the centre of the base the more weight is on their side and the further they will move from the centre of the base.
I’m not trying to be derisive or whatever but checking whether you think something is safe isn’t really good enough. If that’s the company culture then sooner or later some idiot injures themselves unnecessarily because they checked whatever thing and thought it was safe.
Safety regulations and certifications take the decision of whether something is safe out of your hands.
You can lean over quite a bit with them.
Well have you tried it in a pool? Im sure the solid ground helps some.
What makes you say the dock isn’t designed to carry equipment?
Show me me the specs. Note also that this dock is not fixed to pylons, so it’s being used as a barge.
What? I asked what makes you certain that the dock isn’t designed for it. If you’re certain, presumably you have a reason for this certainty and already know the specs from looking at it. I can’t see into your mind to know your motivation for making this assertion, which is why I asked.
I assume you have some expertise that makes this obvious to you, so would you like to share it?
I consider myself an expert in not dying.
No one with a Height Safety Clearance is going to work from a platform which is not certified for that use.
It’s up to you to prove that this contraption is certified. Spoiler: it’s not.
Anyhow, while I look forward to reading your final witty retort, I’m happy to let you engage in whatever practices you deem to be safe while I do the same. Good day sir.
(Not parent commenter) lil hedge makes it harder to argue! And more clear to me about experience/intuition vs. some specific dataset on hand.
Hope this comment doesn’t feel pushy - emphasis on my additions:
The lift is likely on a gimbal. If the wheels on one side of the lift are 1cm higher than the other, that would move the platform at the top by 8cm or something. If both guys are on one side of the platform that could be enough to make the whole thing tilt by another 1cm at the wheels, and so on.
From what I can tell, that lift is not designed to be operated on a plastic barge. So, ostensibly:
That dock is not designed to carry equipment, certainly not an elevated platform, and is not designed to be operated as a barge.
:)
Oh man. This is just using legal speak to water down my comments. It’s lemmy, I’m not on trial.
The lift is not “likely” on a gimbal. It is balanced on top of a floating thing - that’s a statement of fact. If the subject of the statement can rotate around a point like said floating thing then it’s a gimbal.
EZ Dock Floating Work Platforms
The manufacturer markets them for carrying equipment.
Huh.
I did actually look at their website but I didn’t notice this section. Amongst their manuals this “floating work platform” doesn’t get a mention, only their dock.
All of their manuals basically say “observe local safety regulations”.
Honestly I feel silly looking this up because this whole set up is so absurd. Anyhow, here is western australia’s relevant regulation and it says that Elevated Work Platforms should only be used on solid surfaces on pdf page 37:
Relevant risk control measures when using EWPs should include […] ensuring the EWP is only used on a solid level surface, unless it is designed for use on rough terrain,
Therefore, using an EWP on a barge is not an appropriate work safe practice.
I’m no expert on whether it’s codified as a work safe practice, nor am I out to convince anybody to get on such a rig. For what it’s worth, I’m just sharing what I’ve learned as a sailor, and what I see here is a lot of folks certain that this is crazy because of their intuition that it’ll tip over easily. With that it of the way…
Based on my intuition, there was simply no way a 747 could even toodle around the tarmac, much less fly, just by blowing some air out the back. Big ones weigh 500 tons! Then, I learned the power of air and lift intimately by putting a specially-shaped piece of Dacron up a metal pole on top of a boat. Experience updated my intuition, and I’m not even slightly nervous about flying anymore.
Similarly, from the other direction, my intuition said that there’s no way a boat could stay upright with parts (mast, cabin, tuna tower, stacks of containers, water park and shopping mall deck, etc.) so high above the waterline, and so little hull beneath it. But I’ve learned intimately the effects of primary stability, and ballast. With my intuition changed, this setup looks fine.
I’ve had the experience, too, of working in a boat yard. At the end of the season, the owner drove the crawler crane onto a barge not much bigger than the one in the image, and we used it to yank boat mooring anchors out of the lake bed. Even a heavy weight on the end of the crane boom barely affected the trim of the barge. I’ve walked on many an EZ Dock section, and experienced that sections like this have immense primary stability, too.
Indeed, by my back of the envelope calculations, that 20’ by 20’ EZ Dock barge would take in the rough range of 75 tons of force to capsize. (Easier to submerge it!) Even with the 32’ lever arm of the scissor lift, that’s still more than 7 tons of lateral force needed to capsize it. I don’t know the numbers on what it takes to capsize the scissor lift itself, but given that I know that the barge is going to stay quite level, and that there’s no lateral force on the scissor lift platform in this scenario, it seems that they’d be fine even without the straps lashing the lift to the barge.
Anyway, I did a reverse image search, and did not find an original source. I have no idea how common this is, but I did find a comment thread from 4 years ago on the red site with comments from a user who said he called a local company that rents out Rotodocks (a very similar product) which claimed that they do it all the time.
Hope that is interesting, and yeah, absolutely, get the numbers from a real engineer before putting yourself in situations like this.
A drill is equipment
How are they going to get out of the lift and how will they get the lift off fhe mattress?
If they have to get out of the lift, it is at it’s lowest position. That means all the weight is in the middle of the platform and the weight of 2 man will not be enough to make the platform flip over.
They will have to jump to the side I suppose. Just step off. Maybe the can even paddle the platform around, I imagine there is at least one piece of rope to manipulate the platform when there is nobody on it.
The lift will go off, the same way it came on. Probably some sort of crane. I cannot imagine they just drove it on there, but maybe they did. Maybe even a forklift with long forks. There are forklifts that could probably handle that kind of weight so far away on the forks.
This is the type of thing that I look at say this can’t possibly work, and the engineer beside me will look at me a little confused and say this can’t possibly fail. Sure enough they’re usually right. Usually. I still won’t be climbing on there.
Well, it’s always best to listen to the little voice inside, especially if it says “I might just die here”. I completely understand why you would not be climbing on that.
If it’s maintenance they have to do regularly, there might even be a part of the pool tooled for it with arms for the floating block to sit on while they drive the lift on and off normally. Or a ramp with rollers where it gets launched like a boat and a winch to pull it back up the ramp to get out. That last one is my guess, since that whole setup could be portable as long as they had somewhere to anchor the ramp and winch.
If it’s regular maintenance you get a lift that goes higher and you do it when you change the water in the pool. If the pool is empty you can just drive on the floor. Just gotta have something to lower it onto the pool floor.
ezdock is amazingly stable. This is still really stupid but not as completely as it seems.
Yeah, the surface area and buoyancy are serious. The lift is well balanced and designed not to tip over on a very small base.
I think, unless they’ve got some decent magic trick the biggest worry would be getting it on there in the first place. Maybe they crain it on there…
Crane?
It ain’t stupid if it works
Unless it’s this
Maxim 43: If it’s stupid and it works, it’s still stupid and you’re lucky.
You forgot the bylaw: if you strap it down, tuck on the straps and in unison say “yup, that’s not going anywhere”, then your project can’t fail.
They did strap the lift to the flotation device. So long as they remembered the sacred incantation, it’s no longer stupid, reckless, or an OSHA violation.
OSHA moment
the seventy maxims of maximally effective mercenaries?
“If it’s stupid but works, it wasn’t stupid” doesn’t apply to safety or security.
Well no one died the first 3 times
Well, that’s what I said, just with an attempt at humor
That is designed for that.
Right, each time I see this picture pop up, it’s like the words barge and dredging don’t exist. Like this thing is seen as some damn cast away raft or some shit. This is fine. It’s just different.
If you showed a picture of a standard tower crane to someone with a decent understanding of physics but had never seen one before, they would similarly recoil and go “WTF why are you suspending a bunch of concrete blocks high in the sky on what looks like a pencil thin beam!” and it would take some explaining, OR it would take seeing it regularly for that person to become okay with it.
People don’t see this every day, so they don’t take it for granted, and therefore it looks insane. Just like tower cranes look insane.
Looks like it’s going to pick up Seattle’s Space Needle. Quite insane. /c/confusingperspective
This sketchy looking thing is safe, therefore all sketchy looking things are safe.
Some
This sketchy looking thing is safe, therefore some sketchy looking things are safe, therefore I’ll need to assess the specific risks of all things whether or not they look sketchy.
I’m familiar with both of those words. Ok also familiar with the idea of a lever-arm, and this one is too long for my sense of safety.
Most of the weight is at the bottom and you have to have the center of mass go outside of the base to tip over.
The ez dock base is more flexible than say, concrete.
The centre of mass of the lift only needs to go outside the base of the lift, not the dock.
WDYM?
what does dredging have to do with this?
Barges also typically don’t carry tall tipping over things with people on top, and are less flexible than this plastic thing.
In the sense that something designed to carry 8,000lbs can probably actually handle 10,000lbs? Or in the sense that if they both died insurance would still pay out?
The floats are EZDocks, each with a carrying capacity of 3,000lbs, total capacity is 12,000lbs.
The lift is a JLG 3246es, which has a weight of less than 5,000lbs.
What if the lift tips over?
In order for something to tip over, the center of mass has to move outside the area of the base and most of the weight is in the bottom part of the lift. So it is basically impossible without actively trying to tip it over.
It’s only “basically impossible” if it’s on a firm platform. If it’s on a gimbal, like a plastic floating thing, then you don’t really now where the tipping point is going to be because it depends on the flexibility of the platform.
Probably why the bottom is also anchored to the floating work surface. This implementation looks like exactly what you’re supposed to do. There’s lots of pearl clutching for some reason.
Safe work sites aren’t “pearl clutching”.
Who says this is exactly what you’re supposed to do?
If you’re ever working at height and you think it’s safer without a harness so you’re not killed to death by whatever you’re standing on it’s probably a good time to reassess.
those blocks are not that flexible*
never seen them at festivals or some such?
they’re much stiffer than they appear at first glance!
*if they’re properly linked
Any flexibility will change the physics.
Guaranteed the specs on that lift say it can only be operated on the ground.
Guaranteed the specs on that dock say it’s not suitable for supporting anything at any height.
They might get wet?
Uh, sure. You might also fall on the concrete walk way around the pool, or on the lift, or the lift might fall on you, or any number of things.
Sure they might fall in the concrete, but that would be really obviously about to happen to have the fall.
Or like others have pointed out, they’re using equipment designed for this, and probably nothing will happen lol
This equipment is not designed for this at all.
Guaranteed the specs for that lift say that it can only be operated from the ground.
Guaranteed the specs for that dock say that it can not be used as a platform for any kind of equipment, and that it must be used as a “dock” (secured to something) and not a barge.
If your risk assessment is “Probably nothing will happen lol”, it’s probably a good time to re-think your approach. It’s easy to be flippant looking at memes on lemmy, but it’s just madness to risk your life so your employer can save a few dollars.
Yes.
Life insurance wouldn’t be the problem. The problem would be if they lived and were injured. That would be a work comp nightmare. Just imagining getting that call is giving me a headache.
Okay, you go on and test it for us then
grabs popcorn
I have done way sketchier shit than that. That is like a 4/10.
This you?
That’s like a 2/10. He has 3 points of contact.
I mean, you can see in the picture it’s being done successfully…
box with image of successfully built backyard grill
homer, lowering the image to reveal his monstrosity
Make sure you have all your PPE.
Hard hat ✔️ Safety glasses ✔️ Swimmies ✔️
Could’ve sworn there was like an OSHA memes comm this would’ve been good for but can’t find it now
Given that’s now my field, why haven’t I started that comm?! I’ll get on it.
Link it when you’ve made it
Trust them. They’re engineers.
With epic skill and epic gear.
But… What the fuck did just happened here? 🎶
Lol, they’re wearing hard hats correctly. No, there are no engineers in this image.
…but, did it work?
Well, it did until it didn’t
Trick is to finish the job before it starts didn’t-ing
I can’t imagine OSHA would approve this
One has to wonder. They have the equipment, someone saw fit to buy and and then use it.
Mostly just because they aren’t wearing a harness that attaches to designated connection points on the ceiling because they are working over a platform instead of directly water.
The only issue is they aren’t wearing harnesses in case they fall off.
Given they are suspended over water, it may actually be better to not have the harness. If the whole thing were to tip the harness could get tangled and keep someone trapped under water.
Actually the rule is that if they were fully just over water they would be ok to not wear a harness but due to there being a platform beneath their working area OSHA would require harnesses with connections made to ceiling or a guide line installed for working at those heights. This is also true if you are between 2 boats for work as they are still seen as more dangerous.
But open water in a boom lift? Yeah, no harness needed.
I was also thinking strapped to the ceiling would be the safest
I for one, if you paid me enough to get on that thing would want to be able to nope away from it as fast as possible.
It’s ok, i see at least one hardhat
They’ll still have a brain to enjoy the quadrapeligia with
Ok I’ll take this as my opportunity to rant about a pet peeve.
Wearing a harness in this style of elevating work platform is more dangerous than not wearing one, and having a requirement to do so is part of what’s wrong with work health and safety.
The only way someone falls out of this, beyond mechanical failure or tipping, is if they lean so far over the railing they fall out of it.
If I need to wear a harness in this, you need to wear one whenever you walk next to a balcony.
I am a paramedic for more than 2 decades now,but work in an office most days now. I have cared for (and in 2 cases declared death on scene) more people than I have fingers who fell off these. Besides two, neither of them was responsible for the fall.
2 cases of a hydraulic rupture (which leads to the platform going down fast and uneven. The harness is also meant to keep you close to the platform so you don’t fall in between the elements.) 1 being raised stupidly,pushing a load onto their coworker(that was DOA) 1 fall due to being hit by a coworker with a part (DOA after 7m faceplant) And a fair share of units being hit by forklifts, trucks or similar things.
… OSHA rules are written in blood. And often the victims are not the ones who caused it.
Nobody is going accidentally bump your balcony with a forklift or any other equipment.
What? At any job I’ve had you’d be required to harness into something on the ceiling. So if the lift gave out, you’d just dangle there until you got rescued.
Wouldn’t it be better for them to be wearing life jackets instead?
The other issue is when I chuck a stupendous peg-leg bombie next to their aqua-franken-scissor-tower.
Surfs up mfs.
Is that… a mattress? What is that lol
EZ Dock is the brand name, and the company even markets its products for use as floating work platforms.
Well, that makes more sense than it being a mattress lol
As janky as it looks in the image, I’ve seen entire cranes mounted on those things.
If they had a short pole underwater in the middle of the belly of floating platform then it would be more stable than my 95 yo granny at 3 am on her way to the toilet
No idea how it works exactly but the sailing boats have it so to not capsize easily or at all. It actually takes great deal effort to crash the sailing boat on its side, these fuckers can go 90 degrees under heavy wind and still come back like a spring though no promise the people will be still onboard.
It’s kind of fun actually to sail almost 90 degrees on the side but scary.
those sailing boat keels are lead-filled (at least at the bottom) and hydrodynamic so that the force of the running water pushes it back to center. it’s a lot easier to capsize a boat like that when it’s not moving.
There are centreboards (not lead-filled) that use the movement of the boat to counteract leeward drift and there are are lead-filled keels that in addition to that also act as a counterweight to reduce rolling. If it’s lead-filled it’ll be hard to capsize, if it’s just a centreboard you can easily capsize it if it’s not moving (and use the centreboard as a lever to recover it afterwards).
Maybe so but a boat isn’t submerged flatly like the square span of this floaty thing on the picture. If it also had some pole thingy underwater we can’t see then I wouldn’t be surprised people felt ok climbing this machinery
Additionally if it’s like filled with air, empty inside, then it would be really hard to capsize this thing at all because of how it refuses to sink from any corner or side
It’s not as dramatic as it looks is my point, looks funny but actually it’s probably pretty safe because we under appreciate the lifting force of floaty shit filled with air. Boats need to be hydrodynamic so they are naturally more prone to shenanigans like a barrel on the water would be but this square thing is dedicated to sole task of not capsizing with great resistance to being submerged at any point of itself
For me, the problem is that, given that the mat is OBVIOUSLY flexible, it seems nigh impossible to securely tie down so that the torque when extended doesn’t force the mooring lines out of place.
It can’t be flexible, it is AI then
I just see it bending there. I can’t say that it’s definitely AI, I just see something clearly experiencing strain under the load, and that isn’t safe.
If it works, it’s not hybris, is it?
You say it’s working but they haven’t yet gotten back out of the lift nor have they gotten the lift back out of the water.
Some say they are still stuck inspecting those ceiling beams to this very day. It would be the safest pool in the region if it weren’t for the giant lift on a raft stuck in it.
Presumably they’re not frozen in time. The post was made a day ago, so at least several hours before your comment, and the picture was probably not taken minutes before the post was made. I’d imagine they got out of the water long before any of us were aware that they were ever in the water. And given that the picture isn’t accompanied by a second picture of everything in the water or a story about them falling in, it’s reasonable to assume that nothing as notable as that happened.
I’m not joining you on making assumptions out of nothing. I’m stating what we knew at the time without any new information.
If this unexploded land mine doesn’t go off and kill me the moment it gets jostled, then it’s not dangerous, is it?
Well of course the unexploded land mine is not dangerous.
By the time the danger comes to you, it will be an exploding land mine or an exploded land mine.
It’s the thought that counts.
If it’s stupid and it works, it’s not stupid.
If it’s stupid and it works, then it’s a stupid thing that works.
Yeah. But if its crazy but it works then its not crazy. Having said that there is no fucking way I would board the fail barge there.
If it’s stupid but it works, it’s still stupid, and you’re lucky.
It just isn’t worth the risk. A scaffold could be built in ~30 minutes ( an hour tops) with almost no risk at all. I’ve worked at a facility with many tanks of water over 90k gallons each and we never would have pulled a stunt like that. Most had a permanent catwalk to service utilities above like lighting and plumbing.
